Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?

[Sailorbouy2312]

I don't intend to get bullied....If I have go go 'legal' then I will do so....but i'd rather be 'adult' about it

[MicHughV]

brokers....as you know...work on a commission basis...when they think a deal might slip thru' their fingers....they will likely do anything to push the deal thru'....they are not the one's buying the boat...just making a " profit" from selling the boat..no sale, means no money for them...an incentive to make a prospective buyer sign on the dotted line takes precedence over most anything else in their lives...

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Sailorbouy2312

My only concern about taking a price reduction would be when I came to sell the boat I would have to declare the repair and that might put people off.

If its repaired correctly, it shouldn't be an issue for some. At least be honest and up front (unlike your current situation).

Here's another related question, will you be happy and not second guess the integrity of the boat if it was repaired?

I'm thinking its a "no". Move on and don't worry about this boat besides getting your deposit back. You will burn your bridge w/this broker, but IMO so what. He's not the kind of broker you want to deal with in the future.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Sailorbouy2312

I don't intend to get bullied....If I have go go 'legal' then I will do so....but i'd rather be 'adult' about it

While that would be the high road, if they were going to be adult and professional about it, you would have your money back already. One look at a legal letter head, things will change quickly. Go legal.

[Sailorbouy2312]

Now being more aware of the matrix issue, if a boat had been repaired, ie tabbed the old fashioned way, I'd certainly give it some thought. I'd take advice though whilst I looked at it closely.

The surveyor and the repair yard have different views on whether its a full re-tab repair or just a paint cracking issue....why can't they agree...grrrr

[MicHughV]

a paint cracking issue...I think not....I would listen to the yard not the surveyor....he doesn't fix things...the yard does...the surveyor is just trying to cover his butt imo...

[Sailorbouy2312]

Its All getting rather heavy now....

Broker now saying as the information of the crack came from the shipyard, and not the surveyor or survey, they are requesting an independent surveyor, with the losing party liable for costs.

The sellers want to keep the deposit...

How would I know if the matrix has become unbonded....

Any one with an Oceanis 46 out there that can give me an insight?

[Bill O]

Sorry you are getting the run around.

So let me get this straight. They are requesting an "independent" surveyor and you need to live w/that decision??? Any surveyor that the broker knows in this case should be considered a biased party and wouldn't agree to this. You would need to find one that specifically knew benes/or a damage assessment person. Is there another repair yard to come in to look at it quote the job? Unless the surveyor has worked as a builder or in a repair facility, I doubt they would be qualified to make the proper assessment.

You should have a lawyer look over your contract asap before this goes further.
Again you would be liable for what costs? You have put out considerable time, effort and $$ for survey and possible haul out. Again w/the lawyer's help in constructing a letter if it was "repaired" to hide the damage, would say they are liable for your all costs, deposit, time effort that you've put into this venture.

Take a look at the "tip" at the end of this article (linked previously). I think this is a good way to determine if the matrix became unbonded. https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/how...e-is-your-keel

[MicHughV]

yah, if this is a standard broker's agreement, you should be able to walk away from this boat for any reason...any reason....if you just didn't like how the boat sailed...it would be reason enuff....

but, I know brokers...once they have that deposit in hand, they get a death grip on it...if you are unsure, get a legal opinion on it, or go see another local broker and ask them to review the document...

don't give up here, it's a pain in the arse for sure, but don't give up...

it's a problem not being near the boat, and I think this is being used to manipulate you...

[Sailorbouy2312]

The contract says:

- Provided the survey carried out on the vessel by care of a surveyor appointed by the BUYER does not reveal any hidden or apparent problem making the boat unsuitable for sailing.

In the case of the BUYER not wishing to carry out a survey on the vessel this releases the SELLER and the Broker from any responsibility for any unspecified problem discovered on the vessel, as at no time have either acted as surveyor.

Should the BUYER find a problem on the vessel not recognised by the SELLER a maritime surveyor could be appointed to judge the seriousness of the problem to confirm cancellation of the sale or not.

The consultancy fees will then be the responsibility of the losing plaintiff.

[Sailorbouy2312]

After all....

I just want the boat to be safe prior to purchase...
The other side want their money....

And I guess a haul out/drop the keel/replace the bolts/refit the keel won't come cheap

[Sailmonkey]

I would take a thin piece of metal and push it into the crack, if it’s able to slide into a space between the hull and the structural grid it’s become unbonded.

Here’s a few articles/web rantings to consider

https://www.google.com/search?q=bene...obile&ie=UTF-8

[Sailorbouy2312]

Sadly, the boat is 2000 miles away.....we were due there tomorrow but the flights were cancelled by the airline

[MicHughV]

I'm not sure here of all the details...but if you ( as the prospective buyer) hired the surveyor, which is usually the case, I would certainly ask for a written explanation of how those cracked frames were considered to be " good"....that's the big issue here...the photo's do not jive with the surveyor's opinion.

If a surveyor was " recommended" to you by the seller or seller's broker, it would open the door to collusion.

At the end of the day, I would make the effort to be at the boat, when this 2nd evaluation takes place, you need to be there yourself, with a surveyor you can trust to tell you the truth.

It doesn't have to be a complete survey, just a check of those frames. a 30' minute job for a surveyor, so ask for a an hourly rate, but be sure to attend, so there will be no miscommunication. You gotta find a surveyor who is not going to bulls--t you.

[Sailorbouy2312]

I have....this was his reply..

With reference to your queries, please be aware that based onto our previous experience and the ascertainment carried out on board s/y *********, the alleged cracks in way of bottom floor’s edges have to be considered as paint detachment of top coating, rather than as damage to yacht's structures.

Basically is the first external layer of waterproof paint that is detaching from the others given (i.e. the first and maybe the second layer). While the first hand of paint is remaining well welded onto the fiberglass bottom floor, the second (or third) hand of paint given is more sensitive in detaching from the first, having the same chemical nature; this is also due to both normal wear and tear and the position in way of edges.

The yacht’s hull, in fact, both internally and externally was found unaffected by cracks, as well as the hull to keel joints in good order.