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MicHughV · 04-07-2020, 06:22

That's the problem here, the boat is far away. Like the previous poster mentioned, if you can slide a thin knife blade under the crack , it is delaminated. End of story.

My feeling is that the brokers know you are a long way distant and are unable to view or verify or re-survey the boat. That's the trick here, you've got to find a way to get back there..

A deposit is usually 10%, so you are likely talking $10-15K here, maybe more, I certainly would not leave that behind.

If you can find another surveyor to go look at the boat, you might can avoid going there yourself, but finding another surveyor will be up to you.

Time to do some research for surveyors in the area.

Sailorbouy2312 · 04-07-2020, 06:26

It took a lot of effort just to find one surveyor, due to COVID flight restrictions. He was over 200 miles away.

I doubt there will be another, and no guarantees. I'm guessing it will require a specialist.

Yes, about $13000 in deposit to fight for.

Sailmonkey · 04-07-2020, 06:31

Did the yard send an inspector to the boat, or did they base their opinion on the photos?

Sailorbouy2312 · 04-07-2020, 06:33

the yard based their opinion on the photos only.

Sailorbouy2312 · 04-07-2020, 06:33

This is Europe....lanuguage and travel issues prevail

MicHughV · 04-07-2020, 06:53

I can tell you this from my boat. The pan frames where they touch the hull are a bit ragged looking, no question there. I'm not sure how those frames on the underside of the liner pan are formed up. My guess is that they leave the lower edges of the frame without any resin there, so when it gets dropped into the hull that lower flap can be folded flat against the hull to be glassed in. some areas may get a second layer of cloth over the first.
The pan will usually be gelcoated, ie, will have a nice shiny white appearance.. The edges that get glassed into the boat,may or may not be white, just clear, and painted over...though some white color could be added to the resin.
Additionally, if the pan frames do not align perfectly with the hull, they may have put down some fiberglass filler paste to fill any gaps prior to bonding with the hull, or maybe added some foam to provide a "rounded" fillet joint.

Not being there is a serious setback as you can't be there yourself to take another look or try the knife blade trick.

Regardless, I would make the effort to get a second opinion here, especially since you are not there.

That pan gets dropped in there before the cabin soles and other interior furniture is placed, so the manufacturer has room to bond the pan to the hull.

Then too, there is the question of the rust stains and the diesel fuel noticed on the hull bottom I would point these out as well.

I realize this whole process is becoming a pain in the arse, but, you've either got to be there yourself for a second look or hire an independent 3rd party otherwise you will be forever second guessing yourself and will have to deal with any repairs or fixes yourself.

No new boat owner gets away scot free. Expect to do some work and spend some money to fix or repair things, it is after all a " used" boat.

We here, are simply providing " opinions" based on photo's and some words...which is all we can offer.

Lawrence plante · 04-07-2020, 07:21

I don't get the concern about the light structural frame being bonded to hull. I wouldn't give a rats arse about it if there was an internal moulded fiberglass covering that is the true structural frame. On my 1982 bent first 42, there is a thick layer of fiberglass over the plastic. Plastic is free to flip around as long as internal moulded frame beams are intact. That's the essence of composite aircraft manufacture isn't it?

Lawrence plante · 04-07-2020, 07:25

Sorry for lack of edit, but a plastic core is not a structural member, bonded or not, ever. It's the box structure fiberglass that gives strength.

Sailmonkey · 04-07-2020, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence plante

Sorry for lack of edit, but a plastic core is not a structural member, bonded or not, ever. It's the box structure fiberglass that gives strength.

The fiberglass structure is placed in the boat and bonded with plexus. If the bond breaks, the keel is then supported by the thin hull skin instead of the grid structure that maintains shape and spreads load.

Lawrence plante · 04-07-2020, 08:02

Ahhh. Thank you. Getting it

Sailorbouy2312 · 04-07-2020, 08:13

As it seems the only way to end this dispute ,and get my deposit back, is to use an independent surveyor, focussing only on this issue, then thats what I must do. I will insist on being present when it happens..

I'll get peace of mind either way, for a little extra in survey costs.

As has been pointed out, welcome to boat ownership!!

I'll keep you posted.

MicHughV · 04-07-2020, 08:57

I have not seen the Bennie hulls formed up, but my guess is that the hull is formed up sans structural frames, and likely possible, that a structurally formed frame setup is lowered and bonded inside the hull before release, as this would need to include the fore and aft framework as well as the lateral support for the keel and rigging support. It is likely possible that these "structural" frames are added and formed up after the hull is done and is released from the mold with the structural frames in place, as well as the sheer reinforcement, etc...

Yes, I did not consider this....the liner may just be a cover, as it is gel-coated, not usually seen in a structural member....so lateral frames are certainly very plausible, as those lateral and fore and aft frames would need to be substantial and the drop-in liner is just a cover. Makes total sense to me, as the hull is relatively thin, and now that I think about it, the Bennie also has structural members running fore and aft that are visible...hmmmm.....yes, indeed, a very good point, as yes, the liner frame bond to hull looks iffy to me, just basically "glued" into place and not structurally sound.

No way to see these formed in place lateral structural supports without moving the liner, but I may have had this entirely wrong as other structural fore and aft members and rigging support are clearly visible behind the seat cushions, etc. That liner, now that I think about, provides support for the cabin sole, the gel coat finish should have been my first clue, but this slipped by my mind.

I think there are Youtube video's available showing how these hulls are formed. Maybe not Bennie, but others of similar design and worthy of a looksee.

I'm not sure how the framework is bonded to the hull, because some shapes appear hollow or foam filled, but it is likely substantial.

If my suppositions were in error, and I now believe that they are, based on my own boat observation, I need to whipped with a wet noodle and and made to sit in a corner !!!

Still leaves the fuel leak, which I have covered in previous emails, but not a deal breaker.

Sailorbouy2312 · 04-07-2020, 09:03

Its gets worse.....

If I have an independent surveyor and he finds a fault, I lose my deposit as it wasn't complete by the end of contract date:

If I have an independent surveyor and he finds no fault, I lose my deposit.

FFS....