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04-07-2020, 09:23
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#106
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 64
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
No leaks mentioned in the survey, even if there is one present now....thats how much faith I'm putting into his report.....hence all my worries..
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04-07-2020, 09:26
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#107
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 64
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
This whole process is leaving me with a bitter taste in the mouth and a sleepless night ahead. At this moment i wouldn't want it because of the issue.
I might just have to see if i can get the deposit back after legal advice.
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04-07-2020, 10:19
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#108
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 6,275
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
well, as pointed out by the previous poster, and I agree, the liner does not likely provide any meaningful structural support for the hull or keel, I got that wrong, so let's brush this issue aside.
The things I love about the Bennie. I was never a supporter of the open transom idea, favored by the French, but have come to love this feature for a number of reasons and would have a hard time considering a boat without this feature.
The boat sails like a bat outa hell, it is likely it's best feature, it is fast, well mannered, well balanced, etc. It is truly a joy to sail. Bennie got that part right. You can take that boat anywhere. Importantly, it is also very docile when anchored, unlike some boats which tend to sail around on an anchor..
I think the interior is well appointed too, bright, airy, spacious, easy engine access and so and tons of storage.
I did have a problem with that big window right behind the mast as it is just bonded into place, and it leaked a little. I tried various caulks but none worked satisfactorily, but did finally stumble on a caulk that did the trick. I don't know what kind of caulking you have available there, but it needs to be the gluey kind, not 5200, but something like that.
Get a good night's rest...tomorrow is a new day.
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04-07-2020, 10:25
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#109
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 6,275
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
I also had the fuel leak problem as stated elsewhere, but it was a relatively easy fix.....some labor and $10 worth of parts..
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04-07-2020, 10:38
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#110
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,428
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorbouy2312
Should the BUYER find a problem on the vessel not recognised by the SELLER a maritime surveyor could be appointed to judge the seriousness of the problem to confirm cancellation of the sale or not.
The consultancy fees will then be the responsibility of the losing plaintiff.
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I see no reason for you to arrange another survey. Reject the boat and demand the deposit back in writing. Then do nothing, you don't have to, other than line up a solicitor, perhaps with a free 30 minute consultation like the do in the UK.
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04-07-2020, 11:10
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#111
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,428
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
Well, I can understand your worry and you have our sympathy.
However, at the moment you have a stubborn broker in another country who thinks he can force the deal and make it all happen.
He is deluded and just needs the facts of life explained to him. One sharp letter, then go quiet. Legal to follow in due course if necessary.
Had a similar run in with a UK broker who sold all his stock apart from our little sports cruiser. Sold it to the trade myself. Lots of snotty phone calls and letters about his commission. Gave him a £1000 to shut him up and cover his storage fees in the end, but he didn't get his 8% plus VAT he was hoping for.
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04-07-2020, 11:41
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#112
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 6,275
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
yah, I looked at all these photo's again. While I agree that there is some type of structural grid that must have been glassed in while the hull was in the mold, the liner appears to be resting on top of these structural elements. The " structural" grid itself, also seems to have cracks where it joins the hull, which I was there to take a closer look myself as I'm intrigued. would definitely do the knife blade trick.
Too many " iffy" things here...
Like the mod sez, time to stand back and take a stand.
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04-07-2020, 11:58
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 64
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
The obvious question is :
Is it seaworthy in its current state?
And do I have the right to dispute the surveyor's report if I think he had made an error, despite his assurances to the contrary. The report has the usual disclaimer attached!
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04-07-2020, 12:28
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#114
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,428
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorbouy2312
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If you go gently sailing around the med in calm seas, probably. If you sail across the N Atlantic West to East, hmm, Cheeky Rafiki springs to mind and she was repaired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorbouy2312
And do I have the right to dispute the surveyor's report if I think he had made an error, despite his assurances to the contrary. The report has the usual disclaimer attached!
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The surveyors report is yours and yours only as you paid for it. It is for you decide whether to accept or ignore what he has said. If the vendor wants a survey he can go and pay for one, not rely on yours.
Can you have your money back? That depends on the wording of the contract. I hope so, but not qualified to give an opinion. I have had a Queens Council give an opinion in the UK. That was £2000 for his letter and opinion.
How much does the UK yard want to send someone out to survey it? That might be an interesting option to price up and keep up your sleeve.
Pete
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04-07-2020, 12:45
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#115
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,428
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
if you are going to visit the yacht, take:
A camera.
Screw drivers, to dismantle and leverage.
A torch.
A mirror.
An Endoscope (not a cheap $15 Amazon one either).
Why? well that little sports cruiser I mentioned earlier, the inner liner had broken away from the hull and the furniture creaked when we went over the top of every wave. Only found out when I removed some furniture and lifted the water tank out to replace it. I repaired it as best I could, replaced the tank and screwed it all back down again. No surveyor would have found the problem.
Good luck and do go cold on the broker for now. You have nothing to loose at the moment by keeping stumn, if you don't want to write the sharp letter.
Pete
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04-07-2020, 12:50
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#116
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 64
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
The issue is one of time. The broker wants a answer by Monday as to whether I will proceed with the sale. I don't think the seller want to delay whilst I have it investigated.
I can't get there in such a short time, so its not an option.
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04-07-2020, 12:56
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 64
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
Any reasonable person would allow me to reject the purchase , providing I did so within the contract restrictions.
I am also of the opinion its my contract as I paid for it and I believe I don't have to share the information with anyone, no matter how hard they shout at me to prove it has a fault.
He was very reasonable when I said there were an issue that needed investigation, shared the information amongst his contacts. They have a different view to that of the UK shipyard.
That has now disappeared.
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04-07-2020, 13:18
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#118
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,428
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorbouy2312
The issue is one of time. The broker wants a answer by Monday as to whether I will proceed with the sale. I don't think the seller want to delay whilst I have it investigated.
I can't get there in such a short time, so its not an option.
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Then option one:
Reject it in writing on the grounds of significant cracking between the hull and liner.
Option two:
Don't be pressurised by the broker and tell him you won't be until the significant structural problems have been investigated. This way you call the shots, not him.
Pete
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04-07-2020, 13:20
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 64
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
Here is the surveyor's caveat:
This report must be considered as limited to the statement of the apparent and general condition of the yacht, as it was at the time of the inspection, without any prejudice for the terms and conditions of the relevant insurance policy. Therefore, the inspection cannot be considered as inclusive of the control of integrity and working condition of individual parts of the hull, machinery and fittings, as well as of eventual latent / hidden defects of equipment or materials.
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04-07-2020, 13:21
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#120
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 64
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Re: Keel/Bilge area crack/Stern impact?
I have already rejected it, but he won't have it, demanding to see what is in the survey, or my deposit will be gone
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