Installation of rudder angle sensor

[coopec43]

I'm nearing completion of the chain and cable steering so I've been wondering how I would mount the rudder angle sensor as it would be quite difficult. I've read several manufacturer's installation instructions but they were no help.

.) Most installations are unique, it may be necessary to construct a platform on which to mount the sender to be in the proper position relative to the steering mechanism. It will be necessary to fabricate a linkage(i.e.; a small diameter stainless steel rod) to connect the sender arm to the rudder’s tiller arm or quadrant.The linkage must be free to pivot at either end. Also,position the sender so that when the steering is turned from “stop to stop” the sender arm’s 6.5 inch travel limit is not exceeded (see Figure 2). Exceeding this travel limit will result in damage to the sending unit.

Why can't I mount the sensor on a bulkhead (where the cable runs past) and attach the sensor arm to the cable? That would be so simple.

Does anyone see a problem?.

[sailormed]

If you are sure that a 10° angle of rudder position change is represented on your steering cable to rudder sensor displacement by also a 10° displacement I see no problem.
Just do it if this is the easy solution. You can always go for the complicated solution if it doesn’t work as planned.

[Paul L]

Is this rudder sensor for your autopilot? If so you will disable the AP if the cable breaks.

Most installation build up a small platform.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Is this rudder sensor for your autopilot? If so you will disable the AP if the cable breaks.

Most installation build up a small platform.

I don't have an autopilot installed but I do intend installing one "down the track".

I did a couple of googles and found some autopilots don't have sensors (Garmin) but Raymarine does. The sensor I am installing will be wired to a gauge in the instrument binnacle but I'd be very surprised if the output signal was compatible with a production autopilot. (I think I'd have to install a second one)

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I don't have an autopilot installed but I do intend installing one "down the track".

I did a couple of googles and found some autopilots don't have sensors (Garmin) but Raymarine does. The sensor I am installing will be wired to a gauge in the instrument binnacle but I'd be very surprised if the output signal was compatible with a production autopilot. (I think I'd have to install a second one)

Then do the quick and dirty install now and build a platform when you install the autopilot.
Most APs without rudder sensors are marketed to boats with outboards.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Then do the quick and dirty install now and build a platform when you install the autopilot.
Most APs without rudder sensors are marketed to boats with outboards.

Thanks for that. But I'm saddened you think my idea is "quick and dirty" (I thought it was brilliant!)

In the next few days I'll fiberglass some anchor points onto the hull adjacent to the quadrant and worry about sensors when I install the Auto Pilot. (Better get the yacht into the water first)

[ggray]

I just installed a platform near a small "tiller" that I had made and attached to the rudder post, and mounted the sensor on the platform.

Connected the two with a threaded rod.

[Bill O]

We used that exact sensor when setting up the angle indicator for the pypilot.

Having a little difficulty picturing how you want to attach it to a cable. Do you not have an arm attached to your rudder post? A rod as suggested is the most accurate way to attach the sensor to the rudder post arm. You can see a pic in this link how I set up the sensor.

They do make string sensors (retractable reel type) that could be used instead, but are much more expensive.

[billknny]

Think about the geometry here for just a second.

How much cable goes by one spot to move the rudder from hard over to hard over? Two feet? More? You'll have a bit of a geometry problem getting that connected in a useful way to the sensor arm that has a throw of 4 or 6 inches.

When you install the autopilot, it needs to know the position of the RUDDER, not the cable. Even a tiny bit of slack in the cable with have you slewing all over the place.

There are lots of good reasons to attach directly to the quadrant or rudder post. No good reasons to attach to anything else. If you were building a boat for me, "easy for you" doesn't count as a good reason for me!

This is a non-starter.

Before you try to get too clever, try a bit more creativity. Nothing says the sender has to sit horizontally. It can attach to a vertical bulkhead, or even upside down. The push arm from the sender to the quadrant can be as long as needed. It fits through a very small hole (slot actually!) in a bulkhead if needed. It can run off a separate small tiller arm off the rudder post if that helps. It is best if it is in a plane normal to the rudder post, but a bit of up down deflection isn't a big deal.

[ggray]

Yes, all kinds go ways you can mount it.

The installation done on our boat at the factory had the "tiller"on the rudder post facing aft, and the "tiller" of the sensor going forward. It seemed to work OK, but I didn't like the geometry as the tillers were parallel only when straight ahead.So the indicated rudder angle would not be accurate, FWIW. I needed to move it all out of the way, so thought it would be better with the tillers both pointing in the same direction.

Ultimately I mounted the sensor upside down, with shows there are all kinds of ways it can be installed. I also made the radius of the tiller arm on the rudder post exactly the length of the sensor tiller arm.

[tkeithlu]

In practice, perhaps no problem.

Until I added an autopilot with (of course) it's own rudder sensor, I had a working indicator that was based on a generic fuel tank sensor and fuel gauge from an auto parts store. The arm of the sensor runs over a variable resistor, varying the voltage to the meter. I flipped the meter upside down, and made 1/2 tank midship rudder, empty/starboard/green was full starboard rudder and full/red/port was full port rudder. It wasn't calibrated like my autopilot gauge, but it made it easy to find midship rudder when docking, particularly given a hydraulic steering system that has no center position for the wheel. Crude, but it worked.

[SofiaB]

I just installed a Garmin GRF 10 rudder sensor replacing a potentiometer in the autopilot drive. This new sensor came with arm and bracket. Just make the sensor arm parallel to the rudder and the arm the same distance from the rudder shaft.

[Hermia II]

As said above, you need to install the sensor level to your quadrant so it can be attached to the quadrant with a parallel stay. Do not take any short cuts here. If the auto pilot is not installed properly you will regret it every time you sail. sailing short handed, you will use it at least 90%.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Bill O

We used that exact sensor when setting up the angle indicator for the pypilot.

Having a little difficulty picturing how you want to attach it to a cable. Do you not have an arm attached to your rudder post? A rod as suggested is the most accurate way to attach the sensor to the rudder post arm. You can see a pic in this link how I set up the sensor.

They do make string sensors (retractable reel type) that could be used instead, but are much more expensive.

It's probably not the best picture but yes I do have a quadrant attached to the rudder post. But how do I attach the sensor to the quadrant without building a shelf?

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

In practice, perhaps no problem.

Until I added an autopilot with (of course) it's own rudder sensor, I had a working indicator that was based on a generic fuel tank sensor and fuel gauge from an auto parts store. The arm of the sensor runs over a variable resistor, varying the voltage to the meter. I flipped the meter upside down, and made 1/2 tank midship rudder, empty/starboard/green was full starboard rudder and full/red/port was full port rudder. It wasn't calibrated like my autopilot gauge, but it made it easy to find midship rudder when docking, particularly given a hydraulic steering system that has no center position for the wheel. Crude, but it worked.

What is wrong with that? Why do you need an ultra accurate indicator?

I look at this way: if you wanted to measure the speed of a car you could measure the RPM of a back wheel or you could measure the RPM of a gear in the gear-box.

Measurement of the movement in a steering cable will equal the measurement of the movement of the quadrant.

I'll have another look at your comments and see if I should re-think the exercise.

Thanks