Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-02-2020, 15:10   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2
Keel bolts - how good do they look

Gents,

I am on the point to make an offer for a Bavaria 37 2001 but I am afraid of crevice corrosion in the studs.

I suspect a leak in the keel's seal as the rust is coming from below

Obviously dropping the keel is not an option in the purchase process.

Many thanks for your advice.

Kind regards,
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20200222_131532.jpg
Views:	247
Size:	435.6 KB
ID:	209239   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20200222_131523.jpg
Views:	264
Size:	430.0 KB
ID:	209240  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20200222_131500.jpg
Views:	225
Size:	428.5 KB
ID:	209241   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20200222_131307.jpg
Views:	203
Size:	430.5 KB
ID:	209242  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20200222_131250.jpg
Views:	228
Size:	440.3 KB
ID:	209243   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20200222_131302.jpg
Views:	215
Size:	423.9 KB
ID:	209244  

Swaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2020, 15:21   #2
Registered User
 
Fore and Aft's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 2,652
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

What is the goo around the nuts? It looks like someone has tried to seal them before?
I think you should take your Surveyors advice in regards to the keel? Is the keel hull join cracked on the outside? As a surveyor I would not be to concerned, I have surveyed a lot worse. That bilge actually looks ok, no water stains or cracking in the flow coat.
I always laugh when I see the Mission Brown flow coat in Bavaria’s, it’s like a throw back to 1970s Australian house colours.
Cheers
Fore and Aft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2020, 15:33   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,983
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

It's pretty hard to tell looking at the pics...stainless will still rust so its possible that salt water sat in some of those areas for a time, it's also hard to say whether the keel seal is leaking by looking at the keel bolts. Normally a knowledgeable surveyor will pay close attention when the boat is lifted and watch the hull to keel joint as it set down and if he sees any water coming from the seal at that time he knows the seal has been compromised. Your correct in worrying a bit about crevice corrosion with stainless studs and a leaking keel seal but everything may be just fine.
robert sailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 01:04   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Many thanks for your advice. The next step.is to lift the boat on shore an look at the keel seal .....

I've seen a few bavaria's 2000-2003 bilges and this one is not among the cleanest....
Swaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 06:29   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,082
Images: 241
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Swaran.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 07:02   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,642
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaran View Post
Gents,

I am on the point to make an offer for a Bavaria 37 2001 but I am afraid of crevice corrosion in the studs.

I suspect a leak in the keel's seal as the rust is coming from below

Obviously dropping the keel is not an option in the purchase process.

Many thanks for your advice.

Kind regards,
Looks like the bolts have recently been serviced , re torqued
slug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 17:55   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Yorktown, VA
Boat: 1984 Cal 31
Posts: 203
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Slightly off topic, but is that a typical look for a Bavaria Yacht? Is there a backing plate under the flow coat? Because all I see are a bunch of fender washers holding the keel on.

Tankersteve
tankersteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 20:11   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 142
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

If Bavaria is still in business write the CEO a letter asking for the material specification for the keel bolts for your boat . If he just says Stainless steel then include in your offer for the boat all the costs to replace those bolts with Monei It is the only metal that will last in the tropics and these guys in the moderate climates like Germany and Poland etc just do not realize that. We went through that in Canada back in the 60s where we had to change the materials for the propellor shafts on down for the Destroyer Escorts we were building. It is not just a 10 deg F shift You get Blood temp water around Pacific Islands and the predicted life of highly stressed parts becomes weeks not years even if it is SS316 ELC. Fortunately we usually overbuild but it is so much more certain if you spend the few $100 bills for Monel. Mike Pope
Michael Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 21:12   #9
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,134
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pope View Post
If Bavaria is still in business write the CEO a letter asking for the material specification for the keel bolts for your boat . If he just says Stainless steel then include in your offer for the boat all the costs to replace those bolts with Monei It is the only metal that will last in the tropics and these guys in the moderate climates like Germany and Poland etc just do not realize that. We went through that in Canada back in the 60s where we had to change the materials for the propellor shafts on down for the Destroyer Escorts we were building. It is not just a 10 deg F shift You get Blood temp water around Pacific Islands and the predicted life of highly stressed parts becomes weeks not years even if it is SS316 ELC. Fortunately we usually overbuild but it is so much more certain if you spend the few $100 bills for Monel. Mike Pope
Mike, somehow this claim fails to account for all the thousands of stainless keel bolts that have functioned properly in boats in the tropics for many many years.
There is some sort of disconnect here... I don't doubt your previous experience with military prop shafting, but the reality is that damn few keel bolts fail, even in the tropics.

Perhaps the stress levels in keel bolts isn't all that high, perhaps most of them are not immersed in the water and don't reach such high temperatures, but something is keeping all those bolts together.

And if one is paranoid, use of 2205 duplex s/s is a step up from any 300 series metals and a lot cheaper than monel.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 23:38   #10
Registered User
 
Fore and Aft's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 2,652
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Jim you learn something new every day. What about stainless steel propeller shafts on boats? They are definately stressed and every shaft I see is stainless steel? I am talking thousands of shafts, and goodness knows how many keel bolts?
I wonder if someone in power got a little back hander for coming up with that yarn about Monel?
Cheers
Fore and Aft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2020, 04:34   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,642
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Quote:
Originally Posted by slug View Post
Looks like the bolts have recently been serviced , re torqued
Don’t know your boat

Modern Keels are typically iron , ferrous and corrode
Particularly the top of the keel

Your bolts may be fine

Ask a surveyor for advice
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	497202A6-2E44-493B-865A-A7A8977B0860.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	428.9 KB
ID:	209341  
slug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2020, 06:46   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 142
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Stainless needs Oxygen to protect itself Shafts and outside fittings get lots of oxygen and oxygen saturated water. Keel bolts with newer sealants that are better sealants are in Danger . Passivated SS is better but still will corrode with no oxygen. Monel and some Bronzes are for ever ( ie more than two life spans > 120years DEM IS DA FACTS BROTHER I like it not, too but The way it is!!!! Mike Pope
Michael Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2020, 06:57   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 142
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

The really experienced boat builders that have been in the business for three or more generations all use Monel or in some cases Bronze.
Because SS Keel bolts fail and sometimes kill people though they look fine .

SS is chromium alloy needs the chromium to make it STAINLESS and The chromium need Chromium oxide to make it work and seal off the Fe Iron content.

Like our bodies no oxygen no life! Da GOOds Man! You heard it from Da Pope Michael Pope
Michael Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2020, 07:02   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,642
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

Stainless needs to be wet and deprived of oxygen to corrode

High quality sealant keeps the bolts dry

I’ve removed 20 year old lead fin keels and have observed the stainless keel bolts to be i perfect condition

The pictured keel bolts look to have been correctly bedded

Compound on threads and backing washers

Waterproof

Water intrusion from the bilge must be avoided
slug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2020, 08:49   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 142
Re: Keel bolts - how good do they look

All you say I agree with! No Problem!
The problem is how do you know the keel bolts you can not see are dry and oxygen rich , They will not tell you!

I f you lose a mast you can figure ways to get home
An Engine Ditto
Break in the hull Harder but lots of guys use sails and things and survive
Food eat seaguls and fish.

I know of only one person who has lost a keel and made it home.

A small keel boat single handing lost his cast iron keel off west coast of
Vancouver Island----- Sailed it back to Victoria---- man O man I bet he was tired !!! Mike Pope
Michael Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
keel, keel bolts

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good Food, Good Flavor, Good Value, Good Packaging Steadman Uhlich Cooking and Provisioning: Food & Drink 23 10-08-2018 07:19
how do these keel bolts and thru hulls look to you? crankysailor Monohull Sailboats 50 01-03-2018 09:40
Re keel/keel bolts T18con Monohull Sailboats 0 24-08-2017 23:04
Hans Christian Owners - Are These Boats As Good As They Look? charliehows Monohull Sailboats 8 25-09-2014 15:30
For Sale or Trade: U bolts, U bolts, and more U bolts off-the-grid Classifieds Archive 1 20-07-2012 15:33

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.