Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

[Manateeman]

What year is the boat. Just want to check...core all the way...yes?
Any survey comments?
Are you sure you understand what is involved in this sort of repair?
Let’s assume you need to drop the keel...with all the boats out there, why do you want to undertake this project .
What does the yard, and or owner say.
Mark

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

What year is the boat. Just want to check...core all the way...yes?
Mark

To within about 18" of the keel.

[Manateeman]

Dr. Poke. Thank you. I’m looking at the cracks and I guess we are thinking the same thing as you’ve tapped more hulls than me.
Mark

[Sailmonkey]

If that’s below the hull/keel joint, it could be a possibility that someone changed one of the keel bolts at some point by cutting into the keel?

[Manateeman]

Interesting possibility. One never knows. Like any surveyor, I have a little ball peen hammer then I start with a tiny drill or poker and soon mr grinder .
I’ve seen cracks like these before and it’s not a good sign.
Mark

[Sailathon]

To fix this keel, you should find a yard to pull keel off. There is a weak stub which is the bilge area as seen by horizontal separation.

Rebuild the keel stub itself with all new solid epoxy, re-drill new holes for keel bolts.

While keel is off, machine blast off all loose fiberglass fairing where needed which puts roughness into lead. Then fair the keel. Re-attach
keel and repaint with barrier coats(6), and bottom paint.

Too bad boat is not in Rhode Island since I watched
a similar repair done at International Marine Composites, 47 Gooding Avenue, Bristol, RI ( IMC)

However, prior to doing all of this work, make sure
that the hull has no water. IMC can also fix water damage as can any good yard.

The real question is what is the boat selling for; and, more importantly, what is the cost for repairs.

Going forward, first bring an expert yard person preferably one who had new boat construction experience like IMC ( former TPI Composites foreman), get a solid estimate for repairs and then make a decision.

[Cheechako]

That is very strange for a lead keel. Never seen it. I assume it is a keel bolt that had some gap , filled with water and then froze in winter.

If it is a swing keel boat, it could be an issue depending on what you find..
If it's not, hmmmm... it's just ballast. You could melt it with a torch or cut it off and fill the hole. BUT you are left not knowing if the bolt is a problem, it likely is! You are now into removing the keel and redoing the bolts and etc.

The linear cracks shown at the keel stub are a concern also. There's a lot going on with that boat just seen with your picture. I would avoid it personally.

Next thing is that many C&C's are cored hulls , make sure that is not the next major issue.

[Cadence]

As a WAG the bulge may be the least of the problems. It is in cold country so I would hazard a guess that she sat on the hill with water in the bilge that froze after seeping into the keel between the ballast and the skin. I guess not insurmountable but sure to be expensive.

[Clivevon]

You want to buy this boat because .......????

[Clivevon]

Longer answer: I keep seeing all these posts on this forum from all these potential boat buyers asking for help to understand a possible unexplained problem with a boat.
Is the world just full of crooked boatowners?
This boat - like many on here - has a problem. At this point I typed in "May be nothing to worry about" but then I deleted it - there is plenty to worry about here - not forgetting all those stress cracks in the GRP hull. So I'm afraid "nothing to worry about" does not apply.
Or could be "Plenty to worry about". I feel safer with that.
If this was my boat & I wanted to sell her I would do one of several things:
1) fix the boat properly, get receipts & a full work schedule. & disclose that to any buyer; or:
2) Not fix it but grind out the bulge so it can be inspected, get a full surveyors report on the damage to the hull, get a quote from a reputable yard to fix the damage, knock that off the asking price plus an aggravation discount & disclose all to any buyer.
Or,
3) market the boat at a really cheap price, & disclose the issues for any buyer to check out, including what caused the problem (as in, that big rock we hit at full speed).

IMHO, anything else is just dishonest. Honesty is like being pregnant. You are, or you aren't. Simple. Its either important to you or it isnt. When you look in the mirror, do you see a crook? If so, how do you live with that? Not a problem for you ? Think that is smart? Think again.
To the potential buyer of this boat - look at the seller & ask yourself one question. Would you buy a used boat from this man?

[nortonscove]

I'd like to see more pictures showing the hull forward and aft of the keel. Might just be the picture but in the second one those areas look a bit rough for a boat fibreglassed in any production facility.

[j.g.evans]

I have a C&C 36 and if I had this problem I would drill in the area to see if I hit a keel bolt. If not I would clean the crack as much as possible, perhaps more drilling, and then fill with epoxy. Before the epoxy is cured I would pound the area as flat as possible with a sledge hammer. Then grind it flat after the epoxy is cured.

My C&C is balsa cored above the water line. I am not aware of any water incursion in the hull. I have had problems with the deck where water seeped in where the hand rail is attached and in other areas. Winter freezing caused cracks in these areas. I subsequently removed everything (hand rails, cheek blocks, clutches, winches) bolted to the deck, filled the area around the holes with epoxy, and then re-drilled the holes. I did this about 15 years ago and have not had any more problems. This deck work and keel fix is a lot of work and is a reason to negotiate a good price. The C&C 40 is a good sailing boat.
Watch the draft. I have had my C&C to the Bahamas 5 times. It has a centerboard and draws under 5'. This was a good draft for the Intercoastal Waterway and the Bahamas. If the 40 has a centerboard that is good and bad. What is bad is that my and the 40 centerboard is over 400 lbs of cast iron. It rusts, swells, and gets stuck. I have had mine out and this is another big job.

Watch the "air draft" too. If it is over 63' and you ever want to do the Intercoastal then you will develop ulcers. My Hunter 40.5 with stuff on top of a 63.3' mast scrapped many bridges.

[Manateeman]

Well I loved the boatbuilding community in Rhode Island having worked for a few of them including TPI...a huge amount of talent fully capable of fixing it correctly.
The job is significantly challenging and the costs are ill defined at this point because I, or any other boatbuilder, would need more specifics as to your plans.
The #1 ...question remains ...WHY. What do you want from this conversion.
2. What will you have when you are done
3. Either you are an extremely talented boatbuilder and have the time and funds or you are not.
4. If not...do not believe cost “estimates” because it is very, very difficult to hit that number with any accuracy. The wealthy even have issues with wild cost over runs and wealthy sailors typically go the custom boat route, not conversions.
5. Risk. Race boats have large crews because that’s what you need to push it to the max...that...is what the boat was designed for...not cruising.
So all of the designer’s criter for building a race boat are now going to be ignored.
Every single criteria or number, every line a professional drew to attain a specific end will be changed because the goal is no longer racing but cruising.
Now...you could retain another designer to assist you in the conversion, but that requires more funds. Or...you can try it yourself.
So #3 should read...are you both a talented boatbuilder and naval architect?
If you think you will save money and end up with a fast cruiser, then go for it.
You could recoup expenses by a blog or better a book.
I knew exactly what I wanted Ted Brewer to include in my custom design, but I knew well enough, it takes a professional to push the numbers and pencil.
Boatbuilders create a thing out of an idea on paper. Asking them to do both is fraught with dangerous outcomes and unpredictable expenses.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his stuffies and cold beer manatee crew.
( it’s a quahog clam chopped up with stuffing and tied with string for baking...only surpassed the Portuguese sausage ,Linguica, barbecued on a Portuguese roll.

[LakeSuperior]

Took this photo today of my like lead keel bulge. The crack is almost vertical for photo reference. Hasn't changed in 15 years. Very confident it was caused by a gas inclusion that later filled with water. Freeze/thaw opened it up. Not related to a keel bolt. Not an issue as near as I can tell.

[replusted]

Many of the C&C designed boats have the forward keel bolt located under the mast. The only way to get access to torque it is to pull the mast which most owners don't do regularly. Most likely water entered the keel from the bilge and froze during Michigan's cold winter months causing the lead to "explode" from within. This can be reliably repaired. Contact Mars keels and take a look at the keel bolt replacement section on their website. https://marskeel.com/keel-bolt-replacement/ They will be able to remove the old keel bolt and melt away the damaged lead and pour new lead to fix damaged area. The cost of removing the keel and shipping it to them might be high and there may be problems crossing the Canadian border. This is not a DIY repair. Talk to William Souter at Mars Keels. He's a very helpful guy. The C&C 40 is a great boat and worth the effort to repair if the purchase price is right.