Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-05-2021, 17:49   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 6
Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

I am looking to buy this boat from a local marina in MI. It is a C&C 40.
One issue that I am trying to prepare for is this bulge on the keel. It is roughly 3-4" and looks like its been there for a while. How can I fix it? What do you think is the cause of it? From my recent research I am guessing a keel bolt leak.

AndxSurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 18:06   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: building Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 2,806
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

I wouldn't touch that boat with a 40ft barge pole.
coopec43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 18:08   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 6
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I wouldn't touch that boat with a 40ft barge pole.
Ouch. Can you explain why?
AndxSurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 18:13   #4
Registered User
 
Nauticus's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Ontario, Canada
Boat: Grampian 26
Posts: 170
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

I'd have to be honest when I say I'd walk if it was free. Aside from that gaping bulge, you have a multitude of cracks that at the very least need fairing. The 2 really crappy sealant repair lines are another reason to run. For what I suspect you'll pay in repairs for this you could almost fund your first year cruising in a much more seaworthy vessel.

Fair winds
..... And run Forrest run.
Nauticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 19:25   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 140
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Never ever ever buy a boat with keel problems. What doesn’t look too bad can prove to be a five figure repair.
C420sailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 19:43   #6
Moderator
 
roverhi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 7,418
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Assume it's a lead keel. The bulge is the fairing material to smooth the rough casting of the keel. Why it bulged out like that is anybody's guess. Fix is probably fairly simple, grind down to bright metal, apply epoxy with a wire brush to get good adhesion, fair the puka you've created then paint the bottom.

Fair the crack between the glass hull and ballast with a non rigid material like Life Caulk or 4200 and sand smooth.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 20:02   #7
Registered User

Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 6
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Hmm. I am really liking this boat. I am guessing so far the consensus is not to buy it?
AndxSurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 20:57   #8
Registered User
 
PerfectPirate's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: GTA, Ontario
Boat: Ontario 32
Posts: 43
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Andy, I have owned and sailed four different C&C's for the last 37 years, working in boatyards full of C&C's, and I have never seen a keel or keel stub looking like this. Sure, I 'm used to seeing the "C&C Smile", or cosmetic cracking along the hull-keel joint, but this is a new level of damage. The cracking at the top of the keel stub implies to me that there has been a hard grounding, probably with a sideways impact vector. I would really want to know if those cracks penetrate past the gelcoat and into the structural glass. Can you ask questions of any locals who would know the boat's history?


The dribbles down the side of the keel seem to support this line of reasoning. It looks as though the actual seal of the hull-keel joint has been broken and bilge water from inside the boat has been working its way out. This leads me to think that the bulge you are seeing means that water has penetrated the bedding of the forward keel bolt, then gone through repeated freeze/thaw cycles until it has forced the side of the keel out, probably leaving the keel bolt loose in its socket.

My second boat was a C&C 25 Mk 1. After a number of years of ownership I noticed some small bulges in the side of the keel, lower down and well away from the keel bolts. When I finally bit the bullet and ground them out, I found pockets of rust from impurities that had apparently been introduced into the metal at the time of casting. After grinding them out and filling the divots, there were no further problems. It is the only time which I have seen such a thing on a C&C and those bulges did not look anywhere near as bad, or as big, as the one in your pictures.

Can she be repaired by a good shop? Undoubtedly, but at the very least they would have to drop the keel, and I would be sure to get a professional appraisal of the work required and an estimate of the cost. Only then will you be able to judge whether she is worth the investment. There is a joy in bringing a good old boat back to life, but you need to enter the process with your eyes wide open and your enthusiasm balanced by realistic appraisals.
__________________
The Dread Pirate Marcus
No counsel is more trustworthy than that which is given upon ships that are in peril." - Leonardo da Vinci
PerfectPirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 21:29   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Kennebunk ME
Boat: Owner built 60 Aluminum Expedition Yacht.
Posts: 843
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

If you google C&C 40 keel issues you will find a huge amount of advice as the subject was specifically discussed on a number of web forums.
Please do some research first as this is a complex and expensive job.
If you decide to go forth, Ill try to answer questions but telling you how to and how not to do this repair would take me a book to write.
Mark and the manatee crew
Manateeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 22:23   #10
Registered User
 
PerfectPirate's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: GTA, Ontario
Boat: Ontario 32
Posts: 43
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
If you google C&C 40 keel issues you will find a huge amount of advice as the subject was specifically discussed on a number of web forums.
Mark, I did google "C&C 40 Keel Issues" and got back 7 pages of links. However, while many of the links discussed issues with keels dropping off of racing boats and problems with modern keel design and structure, none of those links actually reported keel problems with C&C 40's. In fact, many of the links were to sailing magazine reviews which universally praised the C&C 40. There was one link where a C&C owner reported a problem with a rotting mast step support beam, but that was not in a 40. On the last page, there was a link to an excellent article about design/construction flaws in the keel stub of the post-1983 C&C 33 Mk II, which included a mention that similar issues could afflict the C&C 35 Mk III and the newer 41. I have also heard that a similar issue might afflict the 27 Mk V, but these were all designs from the period after George Cuthbertson had left C&C. I could find no mention of keel issues with older C&C's, nor have I ever heard of a keel failure on an older C&C. If you can provide some directed links, I would appreciate having more information.
__________________
The Dread Pirate Marcus
No counsel is more trustworthy than that which is given upon ships that are in peril." - Leonardo da Vinci
PerfectPirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 22:41   #11
Registered User
 
double u's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: forest city
Boat: no boat any more
Posts: 2,010
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Assume it's a lead keel. The bulge is the fairing material to smooth the rough casting of the keel. Why it bulged out like that is anybody's guess. Fix is probably fairly simple, grind down to bright metal, apply epoxy with a wire brush to get good adhesion, fair the puka you've created then paint the bottom.

Fair the crack between the glass hull and ballast with a non rigid material like Life Caulk or 4200 and sand smooth.
...you are the seller, right?
__________________
...not all who wander are lost!
double u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2021, 23:21   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: building Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 2,806
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndxSurf View Post
I am looking to buy this boat from a local marina in MI. It is a C&C 40.
One issue that I am trying to prepare for is this bulge on the keel. It is roughly 3-4" and looks like its been there for a while. How can I fix it? What do you think is the cause of it? From my recent research I am guessing a keel bolt leak.

Did you come across this thread in your research? Google "bulge & crack on lead keel"?
coopec43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2021, 00:11   #13
Registered User
 
NYSail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Long Island, New York
Boat: Beneteau 423 43 feet
Posts: 674
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

Did you look inside in the bilge above this area...... would tell a lot I would think.
NYSail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2021, 05:00   #14
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 2,700
Images: 7
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

I will relate to you my experience and you can draw your own conclusions.

I have a like bulge (about the same size and shape) on my keel and the position not near any of the keel bolts. I have attributed it to gas pocket in the lead that subsequently filled with water. The winter freeze/thaw cycle then deformed the lead.

I believe that it is benign as it has not changed for about 15 years of continued freeze/thaw. I have ignored it's presence since it was first detected.

Will try to remember to post a photo later today.
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2021, 05:11   #15
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 4,788
Re: Help me find a fix for this keel bulge

That boat has a fully balsa cored hull. These boats are nearing end of days due to core moisture. You have a really good chance of finding serious balsa decay. It's been 15yrs since I've seen one of those with dry, sound core.

Moisture Meter Mythology and Flir thermal imager

Wet Balsa Core in Boats
__________________
it's not that I'm set in my ways but it's taken me 69 years to get it right and I ain't changin' now !
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
keel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help me find a fix for this keel bulge AndxSurf Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 20-05-2021 17:59
Bulge in keel 79CC36 Challenges 3 07-02-2021 04:44
bulge & crack on lead keel hiphip Construction, Maintenance & Refit 15 09-04-2019 17:50
Plastic water tanks bulge when full - breathers are clear - any danger of bursting? benzy Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 0 16-07-2018 10:52
Bulge in Wing Keel Lead Panamajames Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 01-06-2009 05:10

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.