Building a sailing dinghy

[Peregrine1983]

Hi all,

I want to build a sailing dinghy this winter that I can use as an alternative to our 10' RIB while cruising.

I am reasonably skilled with wood working and epoxy. I like the looks of the Lake Union Swift and a friend recommended the Arriba, but I'm curious which plans the forum recommends.

The wish list:
Less than 12', less than 200lbs
Large enough for two adults and some bags
Bench seating
Positive buoyancy when swamped
Easily stowable rig
Motor mount on stern
Fun to knock around a harbor
Boat will be stored on davits and function as a tender to the mothership

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Jammer]

Those are as different as chalk and cheese.


The Lake Union Swift is a sailing-centric vessel that will be awkward to row because of the seating configuration. The narrow beam and seat placement both reduce the capacity for bulky cargo. Construction is stitch and glue. There is a pivoting centerboard. Of the two rigs available, the sloop rig is going to require more extensive setup than may be practical. The lug isn't as bad.


The Arriba is a much larger (10' --> 11'8"), much beamier vessel. It is a bargy design where stability was a primary goal. Accordingly, it has a larger wetted area and will be more work to row and will require more drive from the sail. Yet the sail is smaller. It is fitted with a daggerboard. The recommended rig is a lug.


I built a Chameleon last winter. It's a nesting design, which you don't need, and which involves tradeoffs -- so I wouldn't recommend the Chameleon in your situation. But I can offer some advice based on my own build and a summer of rowing, sailing, and motoring (But be aware I haven't had the Chameleon aboard my Tartan 3800 yet because I purchased it at the end of the sailing season):


- Simplicity of the rig is crucial if you're actually going to sail it. Look for a boat with a sprit rig and no boom. The rig is light, easy to store, quick to set up, stiff (less heel/low center of effort) and has good performance for casual sailing. Without a boom it won't hit you in the head. I sailed around a lake while my daughter sailed a similar-sized boat with a sloop rig. Yes the sloop rig is faster on a reach and points better on a beat but not by much. I have short-tacked the sprit rig on my Chameleon upwind through narrow channels. The boom would improve sailing performance on a reach at the cost of complexity and getting hit on a the head from time to time.



- A kick-up rudder is important for sailing on and off a beach. A pivoting centerboard, rather than a daggerboard, also helps but is less important. The problem with centerboards is that the trunk has to be so much larger and limits interior space.


- A lighter boat is better in most regards. Less weight in the davits. Less weight to drag on the beach. Usually faster. Easier to handle when the mothership is laid up. Can be portaged, which sometimes is useful when exploring inland rivers.


I would suggest taking a close look at the CLC Passagemaker, which is probably a better choice as a tender than the Lake Union Swift. I would get the lug rig. I think the Arriba is a good choice for what you're doing if you're mostly motoring and if stability is a major goal.

[Peregrine1983]

Thanks very much, Jammer. I really appreciate the input and pointers. You're absolutely right about the tilt up rudder - didn't even think about that.

I just watched

this video series

in its entirety on the Chameleon. The Chameleon is perfect, but, as you said, I don't need the nesting.

I'm looking at the CLC Passagemaker now.

[Jammer]

You may be interested in the two short clips I posted last summer where I tried to show the sailing performance of the Chameleon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVnlmhTbHWE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4gERV8q-fk

[Jammer]

It's hard to find good videos of these smaller boats actually being sailed and rowed. The first key point I would make is that less-familiar rigs come into their own on these boats -- the standing lug, the sprit, the gunter sloop -- and on the whole sail quite well. Any can make for a pleasant sail around the anchorage. As such it is nonsailing characteristics such as spar length and ease of rigging that should drive the rig choice.


The second thing to realize is that on boats this size the foot of the sail is going to be close to the deck and gunwales, and any passengers have to be prepared to move around to balance the boat and stay out of the way of the sail.

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

Thanks very much, Jammer. I really appreciate the input and pointers. You're absolutely right about the tilt up rudder - didn't even think about that.

A tilt-up rudder is easy to add to designs that don't have one. I'll be doing that this winter for my Chameleon.


You may also be interested in the PT Watercraft "Spear," which is presently out of production but supposed to be available again next spring: PT11/Spear

[Peregrine1983]

Looks like a lot of fun!

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by Jammer

It's hard to find good videos of these smaller boats actually being sailed and rowed. The first key point I would make is that less-familiar rigs come into their own on these boats -- the standing lug, the sprit, the gunter sloop -- and on the whole sail quite well. Any can make for a pleasant sail around the anchorage. As such it is nonsailing characteristics such as spar length and ease of rigging that should drive the rig choice.


The second thing to realize is that on boats this size the foot of the sail is going to be close to the deck and gunwales, and any passengers have to be prepared to move around to balance the boat and stay out of the way of the sail.






A tilt-up rudder is easy to add to designs that don't have one. I'll be doing that this winter for my Chameleon.


You may also be interested in the PT Watercraft "Spear," which is presently out of production but supposed to be available again next spring: PT11/Spear

That's true about the rudder and point taken on the boom/sail foot. In the sailing configuration, I think it would be mostly for tooling around/fun rather than shuttling people/stuff.

[psk125]

The PT11 (Port Townsend 11) gets good press, though you don't need it to nest.
https://sampsonboat.co.uk/ep136/

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by psk125

The PT11 (Port Townsend 11) gets good press, though you don't need it to nest.
https://sampsonboat.co.uk/ep136/

I mentioned the Spear upthread. It's the non-nesting version.

[ggray]

I'll second the PT 11 or Spear!

Expensive, but you end up (or should) with a great sailing and rowing boat.

I'm basing this statement on what I've seen of these boats, but no personal experience. I have, however, built Russell Brown's 18.5 ft PT Skiff, and the design, construction, instruction and materials are incredibly complete and of highest quality. Everything I've seen that Russell did is well thought out. He is a perfectionist.

You mentioned power. I think Russell tested the boat (not sure which version) with a small OB and was satisfied. I think it would have to be a small motor, as I've read that it's difficult to make a dinghy that is good under sail, oars and power. Russells design seems to cover the first two well, from what I've seen. It obviously sails well, and some (not young) Scandinavian lady rowed one impressively in a race up in the San Juans I think.

[ggray]

To see Russell Brown, his ingenuity, and the PT 11 under tow, look at this:

https://proafile.com/multihull-boats...aran-powerboat

[Peregrine1983]

Thanks all. To answer the motor question - it will be powered with my Torqeedo 1103.

[Jammer]

So, on the PT-11 and the Spear, these are high-end kits that are designed with greater care and more use of exotic materials than, well, any other wood boats or kits on the market in recent years. For example, the problem of spars is solved through the use of custom carbon-fiber extrusions with a center splice in the mast and a bespoke gooseneck. This allows use of a triangular sail while still keeping spar weight down and keeping the maximum stowed length below 10 feet (with the mast taken apart).

Hull wise this is a hull optimized for rowing, that also has good sailing performance. It is a more rounded hull that does not have as much stability as most hulls intended primarily as tenders.


Any of the boats discusssed will go 4 knots with the Torqueedo.

[Franziska]

Spindrift 10 hull, Laser deck cut to match, Laser Radial rig.
Sails, motors (4hp) and rows.
Has a huge dry trunk forward (I can lie down in it with pulled in legs...

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

So, on the PT-11 and the Spear, these are high-end kits that are designed with greater care and more use of exotic materials than, well, any other wood boats or kits on the market in recent years. For example, the problem of spars is solved through the use of custom carbon-fiber extrusions with a center splice in the mast and a bespoke gooseneck. This allows use of a triangular sail while still keeping spar weight down and keeping the maximum stowed length below 10 feet (with the mast taken apart).

Hull wise this is a hull optimized for rowing, that also has good sailing performance. It is a more rounded hull that does not have as much stability as most hulls intended primarily as tenders.


Any of the boats discusssed will go 4 knots with the Torqueedo.

I find the PT11 and the PT Spear highly attractive. They might be my choice.