Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-10-2020, 02:07   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Bern, NC. Marina Tel Aviv
Boat: May Flower 48 - Stadel 48
Posts: 82
Send a message via Skype™ to Jack C
How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

My Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 36i started life as a charter boat with Sun Sail. The next owner hardly used it so for the last four years the engine Yanmar 3YM30 has probably run for a maximum of 50 hours.

This week I tried starting it after 2 months of non use.

The engine fired instantly, roared for a few seconds then died. Further attempts to start failed.

I checked that fuel filter/water separator is clean and by opening the bleed screw at the next filter established that fuel is arriving at the next filter. There was a little air that I bled.
Still did not start.

I cracked open the nut at the aft injector. No fuel when cranking the engine with throttle open. I cracked open the nut where the injector pipe leaves the injection pump and cranked. Still no fuel.

I loosened the nuts on the banjo fittings on the hose feeding the injector pump from the filter and pumped fuel using the lever on the pump. Fuel flowed.

I opened the filter on the engine. The cartridge has black muck and so has the bowl. The metal bottom of the cartridge is brown which appears to be rust presumably caused by water in the fuel.

I cut open the cartridge, the inside is clean.

Then I removed the hose with the banjo fittings. The fuel is meant to flow through the bolt and then through orifices just before the bolt end.

The lower bolt smaller orifices were clogged with black algae. The upper bolt with larger orifices were also dirty but not clogged. The inlet to the injector pump looks clean.

Here are my thoughts. I would appreciate any comments.

My positive test of fuel arriving at the injector pump by loosening the bolts did not establish fuel getting to the injector pump. The fuel bypassed the blocked lower orifices.

There is no fuel arriving at the injector pump or the dirt has clogged the pump and maybe the injectors. The reason for engine not starting.

The initial engine start and roar was due to a build up of oil or fuel in the cylinders.

My question is:

How did the algae get past the two filters?

My thoughts are that the fuel has dissolved water that went through both the separator-filter and filter on the engine.

The water separator-filter is probably not effective to separate water at the flow rate of probably less than 10 liters per hour (based on 2 liters use and 70% return to tank) of a small engine.

Through engine non use, the water separated out of the fuel in the hose and created an environment for the algae to grow.

Can anyone think of any other reason?

I cleaned the filter bowl and banjo fittings. I am about to re-assemble with a new filter. Hopefully the engine will start.

Should I run injector cleaner though the pump and injectors?

Any advice or comments welcome.
Jack C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2020, 08:48   #2
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Auckland, NZ
Boat: Compass 790 , 7.9 metres or 26 ft
Posts: 1,898
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

I'm sorry if this is obvious but I didnt see any mention of a biocide in yr post.
I'd be tempted to drain & clean tank & refill with clean fuel with added biocide. I'll let others comment on injector cleaner as I've never used it.
We had a similar problem but it's never recurred after washing tank with gasoline & using biocide in the fuel. Ours was caused by no o-ring on fill cap when we bought the boat!
Compass790 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2020, 14:56   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 2,906
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

I use a biocide every fueling. I never had algae problems in 60 years.

Filters are mainly for debris that would damage the injectors or pump. Small particles of "algae" can pass thru. When sitting in a filter, fuel line, etc., it can multiply.
I would guess you're changing your primary filter, but not the secondary to have that much water. Or the brand of primary housing you use is not separating water out.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2020, 15:17   #4
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 7,628
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
... Filters are mainly for debris that would damage the injectors or pump. Small particles of "algae" can pass thru. When sitting in a filter, fuel line, etc., it can multiply....

^This.


a. Obviously, we are talking about bacteria and fungi, not algae. Algae require light and are not related to fuel contamination.


b. Bacteria are really small, like 0.2-1 micron. The smallest fungi cells are generally a little bigger, more like 2-5 microns.



c. Filtration is nominal. A 1 micron filter passes millions of particles at 5-10 microns, and it only takes 1. Then they grow fresh colonies on the other side of the filter. This is particularly true of systems that are not used daily.


You can reduce fouling with filtration and water reduction, but you can't 100% stop it. Biocides help, but MUST be used as a preventative, not as a treatment (if used as a treatment, they kill big colonies, they float loose, and clog everything). Regular use helps.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2020, 08:37   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: london
Boat: oceanis 393 seahorse
Posts: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to john simons
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Happened just like that to me. The bug goes through the pre filters and a thin brown deposit blocks the engine filter. I used a biocide to kill the bug, and installed a fuel polishing system that runs from the bottom of the tank.
The engine failed several times (like 0200 entering Cherbourg)until completely cleared. I now dose every filling.good luck ! John
john simons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2020, 10:00   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 15,067
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
I use a biocide every fueling. I never had algae problems in 60 years.

Filters are mainly for debris that would damage the injectors or pump. Small particles of "algae" can pass thru. When sitting in a filter, fuel line, etc., it can multiply.
I would guess you're changing your primary filter, but not the secondary to have that much water. Or the brand of primary housing you use is not separating water out.
If I may ask, which biocide do you use?
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2020, 10:14   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: MD DC area/Annapolis/Baltimore
Boat: 1985 Catalina 27
Posts: 314
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Just curious...
How much biocide? I never dose.
Can it be too much is too much?
Thanks
ferrailleur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2020, 10:27   #8
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: St Croix, heading to South Seas
Boat: Hunter 37 Cheribini
Posts: 125
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

BioBor JR is what I and many charter boats use.

Why? Because we know it works.

BTW, When I got my current boat it started having intermittent surging & stopping issues. This was finally correctly diagnosed as a dirty fuel tank & very old filtering type of system.
Had to open up the fuel tank & found that prior "cleaning" had only done 2 of 3 chambers!! Mech made another access port in 3rd chamber and cleaned out over one pint of black algae from it. Renewed all fuel lines & fitted new modern Racor filter with squeeze bulb to make bleeding less painful. Has worked well for over 200 hours.
Also found barnacles growing & blocking the SW line from inlet to engine! Replaced line & inspected and cleaned as needed remaining SW lines.
Apollo366 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2020, 10:30   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: St Croix, heading to South Seas
Boat: Hunter 37 Cheribini
Posts: 125
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Follow dosing directions on bottle, too much will loosen all the existing growth and you'll be cleaning filters for months. But this would be a sign that you need to clean your tanks & lines of existing growth.
Apollo366 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2020, 11:51   #10
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 2,906
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
If I may ask, which biocide do you use?

Many over the years, but now I use Archoil AR6200 for about 10 years. I use it because it also adds lubrication and I get about 6% better mileage because of the better combustion. I have Detroits with mechanical injectors and haven't changed an injector in the 10 years I've used it.

If you're interested, you can get it online at archoil.com or Amazon and ebay.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AR6200-compressed.pdf (1.61 MB, 33 views)
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2020, 12:56   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: St Croix, heading to South Seas
Boat: Hunter 37 Cheribini
Posts: 125
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

I think I'm gonna change brands.

Many thanks Lepke.
Apollo366 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2020, 13:11   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 15,067
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

By the way, Practical Sailor did a test a few years back on biocides. Not truly a definitive test but did offer some interesting insights.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/boa...esel-additives
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2020, 04:50   #13
Registered User
 
longjonsilver's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: halifax, nova scotia
Boat: Searching for a trimaran
Posts: 498
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
a. Obviously, we are talking about bacteria and fungi, not algae. Algae require light and are not related to fuel contamination.
There are many things in this world that are not called the correct scientific name by the public. Whatever phyla they belong to, they are causing problems in peoples diesels. i am looking at buying a boat that the diesel won't start. Owner thinks its rings and bearings, he mite be rite, but i think that there is a good possibility of bugs in the diesel plugging things up. If that is true, then that is an easy fix compared to an engine overhaul.....But this thread is a good reminder that the bugs will get into other parts of the fuel system besides the fuel tank. Gotta clean them all out.

Anyone know how to clean an injector pump?

jon
__________________
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance. Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life. VE0XYZ
longjonsilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2020, 06:52   #14
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 7,628
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by longjonsilver View Post
...Whatever phyla they belong to....

Kingdom. Bacteria are are in eubacteria. Fungi are in fungi. Algae are in protista. None are relatives, other than being alive. Kinna like sayin' a fly is the same as an elephant... only they are much more closely related.



Just playin' with you. It does mater, however, in understanding what they need to survive.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2020, 07:57   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: St Croix, heading to South Seas
Boat: Hunter 37 Cheribini
Posts: 125
Re: How could it happen? Algae growth in hose after filters and before Injection Pump

Anyone know how to clean an injector pump?

jon
___

Yes, take it to a Diesel Shop, they are way too precise to DIY.
Oh, and don't forget to note the timing setting if it's got one.

Capt Wayne
Apollo366 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
pump

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maxprop growth - from a leaky current - not algae. jpeac2 Propellers & Drive Systems 1 25-06-2018 10:10
"If It's Going to Happen; It's Going to Happen Out There." Hudson Force General Sailing Forum 25 18-10-2016 11:16
Cruising in your mid-50's stories - did it happen/didn't it happen? marty9876 Liveaboard's Forum 107 12-09-2016 12:58
Algae growth in AC intake filter Driftwoods Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 4 28-07-2014 18:04
Algae in my shore water hose Cruising Moxy Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 4 03-06-2012 08:59

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.