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Old 16-07-2021, 13:48   #16
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

The info I presented relates if there are separate throttle and shift controls. As per above if it is a single control the it may not apply for the reasons TrentePieds mentioned above. In which case you can ignore my suggestion at this time
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Old 16-07-2021, 14:18   #17
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

Just following this, some what. The throw on the controller is not sufficient for your tranny. Putting another hole in the tranny arm might make shifting a two handed operation? Best of luck, wish I had the answer. Maybe an intermediate toggle but that's for a machinist.
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Old 16-07-2021, 14:32   #18
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

Buddy:

Here is a link to Bukh's Shop Manual for the DV10 and its tranny. It is long but I recommend that you print it out. With this manual to hand you can damn near build a DV10 from scratch :-)

https://bukh.dk/upload_dir/docs/FAQ/...%2020%20ME.pdf

I note that in this manual the "Shift Lever" is depicted with TWO holes for the clevis, and the manual states specifically that the lever MUST be able to move 37s either side of the central (neutral) position "with little friction"

I read into that that if you use the clevis hole nearest the shifter shaft in the existing Shift Lever and you find a hole in the Edson unit that has near enuff the same fulcrum distance (which you can obviously measure with a simple ruler), then, if using a new (and properly lubricated) Morse cable, you can operate the shifter at the steering position feeling no friction to speak of, Bob should be yer uncle.

In TP, with essentially the same set-up though the engyne is a Beta, the pressure on the shifter on the pedestal required to effect a shift is no more than can be exerted by my little finger. And that is the way it should be.

In your boat, low speed maneuvers, such as docking or generally maneuvering within the confines of marina or harbour, should be performed by keeping the engine idling and the shift in neutral most of the time, the boat's speed through the water being regulated by judicious use of the shifter rather than by use of the throttle. Only when there is a call for the prop wash to impact the rudder forcefully, or when "prop walk" is deliberately used to turn the boat, do you use higher RPM, i.e. only then do you use the "throttle".

Cheers

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Old 17-07-2021, 22:47   #19
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Buddy:

Here is a link to Bukh's Shop Manual for the DV10 and its tranny. It is long but I recommend that you print it out.

https://bukh.dk/upload_dir/docs/FAQ/...%2020%20ME.pdf

I note that in this manual the "Shift Lever" is depicted with TWO holes for the clevis, and the manual states specifically that the lever MUST be able to move 37s either side of the central (neutral) position "with little friction"

TP
Indeed, I own an original copy of the manual (came with the boat) and have the pdf. Thanks for the tip though!

Notably, the shifter you are citing (which is the 'governor system' on manual page G14) is not the problem. I have not even attempted to hook it up yet because it appears so easy and straightforward. It's the lower lever, which appears to change gears, that needs 3.75" range of motion, which exceeds the morse cable range of motion, let alone the Edson pedestal lever play.
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Old 20-07-2021, 12:10   #20
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

For those who followed this thread, I now have an answer of a sort. It turns out I wasn't crazy -- I was just f___d.

I talked with Edson directly about the Bukh DV10's shifter needing 3.75" throw, and even their tech support didn't have an answer and had to go consult what they called "the experts." They have now called me back with the answer: no modern Edson pedestal products have the 3.75" throw required to handle the Bukh DV10's gear shift. Their ancient external mounted kit (which the boat originally had, but of which only an empty housing remains) could do it, but they don't have any parts for that even in their dustiest back room.

Thus, Edson's answer to me is: buy a gear shift set-up from some other company.

There's plenty of hardware out there, of course, but getting something that can fit on a sailboat pedestal will be the trick. The Bukh DV10 videos on youtube that show working Bukh DV10 gear shifts in action depict the gear shift as being a basic, large handle -- but these boats tend to be European power boats, and the handles are mounted on a wall in a cabin with plenty of room. I can't see any sailboat pedestal mounting options. I'd love to find something that won't have to be installed on the cockpit wall, since a previous boat of mine had that set-up, and this short boat owner found the 'bend and go blind' docking experience wasn't my favorite.

Anyone got a product suggestion? I have an ancient Edson 334 or 335 pedestal.
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Old 20-07-2021, 13:58   #21
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

Back in the days when the DV10 was designed, back in my native Denmark, no-one would have dreamt of steering a sailboat as small as 30 feet by WHEEL. Good Lord - that's for REAL ships ;-)!

It was partly a cultural thing. Danes, including the engineers working for Bukh, knew lots'n'lots about fishing boats and other work boats. Workmanlike and seamanlike trumped pretty every time! You may have surmised that Bukh tried to enter the north American market some fifty years ago when the popular enthusiasm for running away to sea swept the continent. Bukh didn't succeed. The cultural gap was just too great to make it viable for Bukh to enter a market that clearly was gonna get dominated by "native" manufacturers. Besides, Bukh was still very busy with "real" boats since the fishing industry was still viable.

So - did you have a look at the fulcrum distance for the "near" hole in the shifter lever?

You are absolute right, "wall mounting" the original on the inboard side of a cockpit seat, as is often done, is a damn nuisance when maneuvering. There again, in that universe far away and long ago, there were no marinas in our sense, and therefore being able to control boat speed by using the shifter was not an important feature. We usually came alongside a wharf in the small fishing harbours that then existed, at 2 or 3 knots, positioning the boat so that when we engaged reverse and goosed the engine the prop walk would slick the boat up against the wharf just as the boat went dead in the water. I selected my slip in my current marina specifically so I can still do that :-)

If I were you, I would, before I gave up, take the shifter lever off the tranny and drill a clevis hole at the same fulcrum distance that the Edison's lever has. It might work or it might not. It's a quick thing to do, so it's worth trying. You just might get away with it :-)!

TrentePieds
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Old 20-07-2021, 14:49   #22
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Back in the days when the DV10 was designed, back in my native Denmark, no-one would have dreamt of steering a sailboat as small as 30 feet by WHEEL. Good Lord - that's for REAL ships ;-)!

It was partly a cultural thing. Danes, including the engineers working for Bukh, knew lots'n'lots about fishing boats and other work boats. Workmanlike and seamanlike trumped pretty every time! You may have surmised that Bukh tried to enter the north American market some fifty years ago when the popular enthusiasm for running away to sea swept the continent. Bukh didn't succeed. The cultural gap was just too great to make it viable for Bukh to enter a market that clearly was gonna get dominated by "native" manufacturers. Besides, Bukh was still very busy with "real" boats since the fishing industry was still viable.

So - did you have a look at the fulcrum distance for the "near" hole in the shifter lever?

You are absolute right, "wall mounting" the original on the inboard side of a cockpit seat, as is often done, is a damn nuisance when maneuvering. There again, in that universe far away and long ago, there were no marinas in our sense, and therefore being able to control boat speed by using the shifter was not an important feature. We usually came alongside a wharf in the small fishing harbours that then existed, at 2 or 3 knots, positioning the boat so that when we engaged reverse and goosed the engine the prop walk would slick the boat up against the wharf just as the boat went dead in the water. I selected my slip in my current marina specifically so I can still do that :-)

If I were you, I would, before I gave up, take the shifter lever off the tranny and drill a clevis hole at the same fulcrum distance that the Edison's lever has. It might work or it might not. It's a quick thing to do, so it's worth trying. You just might get away with it :-)!

TrentePieds
I'm afraid he would need to lengthen the Edison's lever in order to have the needed leverage so that shifting would not be a two handed operation? Is that tranny a crash box like the old Twin Discs?
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Old 20-07-2021, 15:52   #23
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

As I said, trying a shorter stroke on the shifter lever MIGHT work. I'm not saying it will. The labour involved in trying it out is negligible.

If he then gets a silky smooth shift with FULL engagement, then Bob's his uncle. If not, then nothing has been lost. There is a slim chance that the angular displacement spec of +/- 37 can be met by the Edson unit without stressing the cable. That will depend on the strength of the detent in the tranny. That obviously needs to be a certain magnitude to make engagement secure.

Being a bit of a nerd about things like that, I'd put a spring scale on the shifter lever and measure the pull required a the normal fulcrum distance to engage the tranny and also the pull to come out of engagement

He still has the old Bukh supplied bulkhead-mounted unit I believe, and he might have to live with that. But I can see a way of taking the short stroke of the Edson to a shop made gizmo in the engine compartment and thence at longer stroke to the shift lever on the tranny. Ultimately he has to meet the requirement for that magic +/- 37 angular displacement.
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Old 21-07-2021, 11:46   #24
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
There is a slim chance that the angular displacement spec of +/- 37 can be met by the Edson unit without stressing the cable.
I think perhaps some continuing confusion. I believe the 37 degree figure you are citing is from page R33 of the shop manual. That is actually not referring to the gear shift lever that's the problem. That page R33 part you're alluding to is the small governor (throttle) lever; that lever, as I mentioned in previous posts, is perfectly fine. No worries. Piece of cake.

It's the large shift lever on the transmission that has the large throw. This one is the problem.

I'm re-attaching the two pics below. The first one, the page R33 little lever, is not at issue. It's the large lever on the tranny, in the second pic, that has the large throw.
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Old 21-07-2021, 11:52   #25
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Re: gear shift control refit problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Back in the days when the DV10 was designed, back in my native Denmark, no-one would have dreamt of steering a sailboat as small as 30 feet by WHEEL. Good Lord - that's for REAL ships ;-)!

TrentePieds
I hear you! My first C&C30 had a tiller, and it was a dream to steer. In particular, it was a champion at backing up. You just eased into reverse, aimed the tiller at wherever you wanted to go, and the boat followed the tiller angle like a hunting dog following a gesture from its master.

But like a lot of new sailors, the romance of a wheel intrigued me. Now that I have one, it's been a right royal pain. And I have to surrender a big chunk of my cockpit to it, too -- my tiller used to fold up and out of the way, no worries. I'm learning!
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