gear shift control refit problem

[Buddy_Y]

I'm refitting a 1973 C&C 30 that languished in a warehouse for 13 years and desperately needed updating even before that. But I'm stuck with a problem attaching a new throttle/ kit on the Edson pedestal (plus new throttle cables).

The boat used to have an old exterior throttle/shifter set-up (example pic from internet attached below) but it was rotted to uselessness. After talking with the Edson factory to clearly establish which pedestal I had, I purchased on their recommendation this replacement on-pedestal kit, plus new cables of course.

But I've been stuck trying to install it over multiple work days because when I attach the shifter cable to the new shifter lever in the pedestal, the lever's throw does not move far enough to move my Bukh DV10 engine's gear shifter lever completely through its arc from the forward to reverse positions. (Pic of the engine shift lever is attached below.) I've been troubleshooting it with the throttle kit's instructions, adjusting the clevis connections etc, but no combination results in a cable throw of more than about 2.25", whereas the Bukh DV10 engine shift lever seems to need to move somewhere around 3.75" total in the full span from forward position to reverse.

Moreover, when I try to get more throw via adjustments per the throttle kit instructions, the morse cable gets snagged on an inner pedestal lip and the lever hits the steering chain at both extremes of its up and down movement (and still does not get anywhere near enough throw.) I even took off the support bracket, which the shifter handle was also hitting.

In exasperation, today I disconnected the throttle cable completely at both ends (a morse 33c xtreme; the old cables were just plain 33c) and measured its basic throw. The cable itself only seems to have a play of 3.5" maximum.

Clearly, I'm missing something basic. (This is my first time working on throttle/shift hardware.) I mean, should the engine lever itself be adjusted? (Pic attached.) Do I perhaps have a wrong throttle kit?

[donradcliffe]

Seems like you could drill another hole in the transmission lever at a shorter radius.

[Buddy_Y]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Seems like you could drill another hole in the transmission lever at a shorter radius.

Interesting thought! But there's a bracket that holds the cable at a fixed horizontal level, and the cable has to be within 10 degrees of the attachment point to the lever per the instructions.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Buddy_Y

Interesting thought! But there's a bracket that holds the cable at a fixed horizontal level, and the cable has to be within 10 degrees of the attachment point to the lever per the instructions.

In the picture, it looks like more than 10 degrees from the original hole

[Buddy_Y]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

In the picture, it looks like more than 10 degrees from the original hole

Just the pic. I've had the cable mounted -- the bracket and the attachment point are aligned.

[AKA-None]

Change the cable mount point and put a hole on the shifter closer to the shaft. That will get you the throw you need. I have the exact same Edson setup.

[TrentePieds]

Buddy:

AFAIK the DV10 had single lever control arranged so that engine RPM was determined by the position of the very same shift lever on the transmission that governed forward and reverse engagement - a lever you have correctly identified in your picture. Lay the control lever at the steering position forward into what Bukh calls "Range 1" and the tranny goes into forward gear, but the RPM remains at idle. Lay the lever further forward into "Range 2" and while the tranny remains in forward gear, the RPM increases. The same principle works for going in reverse.

If that is how your setup worked originally, the Edson replacement control you show will NOT work, and that might very well be the source of your frustration! I do not know that Edson would have a direct replacement for the steering position control for a DV10. After all, that machine is by American standards a somewhat esoteric one :-)!

So If you'll be kind enuff to either confirm or refute that your DV10 has that standard single lever double action control that the DV10 came with - which may require you to get down in the motor room bilge and play with the lever while it is DISconnected from the control cable but the motor is running - we can take it from there.

Ultimately it comes down to this: The distance from the centre of the control lever shaft to the centre of the control lever clevis has to be precisely the same as as the distance from the shaft of the lever on the tranny to the centre of that lever's clevis.

Given the mechanical resistance to shifting the lever on the tranny, it is, furthermore, essential that ITS fulcrum distance govern, so that the fulcrum distance of the lever at the steering position is identical to that on the tranny. Drilling a hole in the lever on the tranny and fitting the cable there will cause strain on the cable and its premature demise.

All the best

TrentePieds

[Buddy_Y]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Change the cable mount point and put a hole on the shifter closer to the shaft. That will get you the throw you need. I have the exact same Edson setup.

Sounds interesting! You mean on the engine (mount the cable lower and drill a hole lower on the engine shift lever)? Not on the pedestal?

[Boatwright]

Buddy,

Before you go drilling holes, you need to pay close attention to what TrentePieds had to say about the shift/throttle linkage setup on your old Bukh.

You mention your old control lever is "rotted". Perhaps you mean to say it is rusty and worn. You may find with the help of a good machine shop that it can be cleaned up, worn pivot points can be repaired, etc.. Have you considered that path? It may end up being the best way to go.

An old mechanic once said to me, "Son there isn't anything made that can't be fixed, there are just those who can't find the part at the store and don't know how to make a new one themselves."

[Buddy_Y]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Buddy:

AFAIK the DV10 had single lever control arranged so that engine RPM was determined by the position of the very same shift lever on the transmission that governed forward and reverse engagement - a lever you have correctly identified in your picture.

TrentePieds

This DV10 appears to have two controls: I'm attaching a pic of the second control below; the Bukh dv10 manual available online here shows it on page five, marked as "regulating lever"; and I inherited two rotted and frayed-through morse control cables, plus two clevis engine connections. Am I misinterpreting that this "regulating lever" is the throttle control?

[Boatwright]

FYI: You can have Morse/Teleflex cables made to order -- length, end fittings, clevises, etc., as you require.

Custom Push Pull Cables | Morse Style Cables | Teleflex Style Cables

Aircraft Spruce and Specialty is another source.

I hope Edson will give you a refund, because fixing what the engine was designed to work with is really the best way to go. BTW Edson has a reputation for standing behind their products, and it seems they were mistaken when they sold you the control that won't really work with your engine.

[Boatwright]

The second cable is your mechanical engine stop pull cable. It looks like you also have a solenoid for an electric push-to-stop button. These work by cutting off the fuel supply.

If you are new to Diesels, turning the key will shut off your instrument panel and maybe your charging system, but won't stop the engine which doesn't have an ignition system.

Also, understand that the "throttle" in a Diesel isn't really a throttle like a carburetor has. The speed control in a Diesel works by controlling the amount of fuel only.

[Buddy_Y]

Originally Posted by Boatwright

The second cable is your mechanical engine stop pull cable.

Indeed, but the cable in the picture is not the connection I'm referring to. In the picture, above that cable and slightly closer to the camera, there is a flat red-painted horizontal bracket (to mount the morse cable, which is not present in this picture) leading to a small horizontally pivoting lever, which I believe to be the throttle control.

[TrentePieds]

You are right, Buddy!

That lever called the "Regulating Lever" is indeed the gizmo that controls the RPM. The reason that it is called a Regulating Lever and not a "throttle lever", or some such, is that diesels don't have throttles of the kind you find on old fashioned gas pots.

My comments about fulcrum distances hold true also here. The fulcrum distance on the Regulating Lever should be used to set the "throttle" lever fulcrum distance at the steering station. It will be shorter than that on the shifter. These distances on the RL and the "handle" at the steering station should be a near identical as possible, but it is less critical here because it takes so little force to move the Regulating Lever on the engine. If the fulcrum distance at the steering station is less than that on the engine, you'll have to move the actual "handle" at the steering station a greater distance to get a given response from the engine. If you make the distance on the "handle" much less than that on the engine, the engine will seem unresponsive. If you make it much longer, the engine will seem incontrollable.

As far as the gear shift is concerned, what I said about fulcrum distances in my previous post is still true.

You probably know it already, but the little white "can" on the same part of the engine where the Regulating Lever is, the one with a yellow wire leading to it, is the solenoid that stops the fuel flow to the engine and thereby stops it, when you press a button at the steering station. There should be a way to activate that engine stopper manually. Make sure it works. It's the only safe way to stop a running diesel!

Cheers

TP

[Boatwright]

Buddy,

Glad you and TP finally figured things out. It would have been nice to have all the pics in your first post.

He is 100% correct about throttle throw. Please note what he says about the shifter control geometry. I am still wondering what makes sticking to the original design and fixing / recabling your original setup undoable.