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Old 12-07-2020, 06:43   #1
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Diesel on the hip

Hi all,

Curious to hear your diesel/gas can type and method of affixing the can to your lifelines or stanchions or somewhere else on deck.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 12-07-2020, 06:52   #2
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Re: Diesel on the hip

I use NATO cans in a NATO rack. That said, mine are 15 feet above the water line, so relatively free of salt spray, and maintaining them is just part of maintaining a steel boat. When you finish stopping rust, start over.

If I had them on the foredeck, I think that I would go with the flat plastic versions such as this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Scepter-Resis...%2C201&sr=8-32

I've never found a self-closing plastic spout that I did not hate with a passion. I use a a water-separating funnel when I use a plastic can, and store it with the cap slightly loose.
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:03   #3
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Re: Diesel on the hip

Thanks tkeithlu. That’s what I was looking at, so good to hear that’s what you considered as well. I’m thinking about taking two long, 6” wide teak boards and affixing them to my Stanchions/lifelines and then bungee cording these cans to the boards. That’s at least what I’m picturing in my head at this point...
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:03   #4
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Re: Diesel on the hip

While I really dislike having any such on deck, I do store gas and diesel jugs on deck when necessary.

I installed a couple of hardwood 1x4 planks U-bolted to a pair of stanchions. To these I added U-bolts as attachment points for the usual red/yellow plastic approved jerry cans. I had sunbrella covers made for the cans that include adjustable webbing belts with SS spring clips on the ends which attach conveniently to the U-bolts. The covers both secure the jugs and keeps the sun off the plastic.

I use those plastic interlocking floor tiles sold to keep your feet comfortable on concrete floors under the jugs to keep the jugs from damaging the deck and vice-versa.

By the way, when refueling from a jug at sea, I use a pipe nipple screwed into the fuel filler of the boat. This raises the apparent fuel opening above the deck level and helps keep water out of the tank, especially if there is a bit of water on the deck.
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:18   #5
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Re: Diesel on the hip

Plastic jugs on deck attached to the stanchions with a 1x3 piece of oak.
Refuel with a jiggle siphon, don’t try to use the spout, it will aggravate you no end and make a mess besides.
I rarely use them, I leave with full fuel in the cans and usually come back with them full and refill the boat from them to keep fresh fuel.
I do it out of paranoia, like last year when the Bahama’s closed the fuel docks, having fuel on deck was comforting then.

Be sure to treat them with biocide or you could end up with unusable fuel.

Don’t use bungee cords, they quickly rot in the sun and just don’t last, lash them with rope. And make some Sunbrella covers for them, looks better and the cans will last a long time if kept covered, it might even help keep the fuel as it blocks light.
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:26   #6
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Re: Diesel on the hip

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I do it out of paranoia, like last year when the Bahama’s closed the fuel docks, having fuel on deck was comforting then.

Exactly... even with an almost 600nm motoring range on our boat, I like to have a few hours of motoring range on deck when I'm heading to a place I don't know. Especially nowadays.



Definitely a good call to lash them instead of using bungee cords.



Jamhass, it sounds like you've really made a nice looking setup with the covers. I'm going to use your idea of U-bolts around the stanchions.
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:57   #7
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Re: Diesel on the hip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
Thanks tkeithlu. Thatís what I was looking at, so good to hear thatís what you considered as well. Iím thinking about taking two long, 6Ē wide teak boards and affixing them to my Stanchions/lifelines and then bungee cording these cans to the boards. Thatís at least what Iím picturing in my head at this point...
What I think you should picture in your head is a large wave breaking over the bow and sweeping the deck, then hitting those fuel cans. Carrying fuel on deck, lashed to the lifelines, is common but that does not mean it is safe or recommended.

Most passages are completed in calm seas. Some vessels however encounter heavy weather and this cannot always be anticipated. Fuel or water containers secured on deck the lifelines or stanchions is risky in the event that heavy weather is encountered.

The force of a wave boarding a vessel is much higher than most people image. Hitting a row of jerry cans it can certainly burst the restraints of bungie cords. Stronger lashings simply transfers the force onto the stanchions. It is not uncommon for stanchions to be bent or broken and the jerry cans ripped off. Other items stored on deck cause similar risks. Kayaks, surfboards, and SUP's are frequently lost and boats are damaged.

Coping with these items when seas are ripping them loose requires going on deck and this is dangerous and distracts the operator from other tasks, such as navigation in the wind and wave conditions which are being faced.

These are facts.

Most experienced ocean cruisers simply will not go to sea with items strapped to the lifelines. Those that do are counting on calm weather, and of course, most passages are completed safely even with items strapped on deck. But the sea is patient. It will wait for the opportunity, then strike. Count on it.

In my view this is not good seamanship and your vessel, if so rigged, is not well prepared for going to sea.

In rare occasions when we have decided to carry extra fuel, we lash it inside of the cockpit and use it as soon as possible. Then the jerry cans are washed out and taken below.

Skippers should learn to sail their vessels to the destination or limit motoring to the fuel carried in internal tanks rather than relying on fuel carried on deck.
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:17   #8
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Diesel on the hip

Wing sail is dead right. Lashing jerry cans to stanchions should be avoided at all costs when heading offshore. I have seen them ripped off personally- a big mess as the stanchion bases sheared, and the sharp metal punctured one of the jerry cans. Another had its cap ripped off as it washed about in the scuppers and fouled the spaghetti of now jumbled lashing lines. Now imagine trying to sort this out in 35 knots, cold North Atlantic, heavy spray and occasional boarding seas, two of you crammed between the cabin sides and where the lifelines and jerry cans used to be- except all the lifelines on that side of the boat were now very slack. On top of this, the leaking diesel mixed with the boarding seas, and bathed the entire boat in a nasty, smelly, wickedly slippery emulsion of salt water and diesel. Your clothes, your foulies, your food, the settees, your pillow- it penetrates everywhere and causes most to lose their stomachs immediately.

These kind of cascade events can go from a simple small issue to truly life threatening in a few short minutes.

Poorly lashed deck gear in general is a horrid no-no offshore. Doubly so for jerry cans. I have resorted to lashin them under the salon table, or removing bunk cushions and lashing them into a bunk. And don't even get me started on those cheap- ass lash down plastic fuel bladders. Had to cut one of them free off an amel on one trip, before it burst and filled the cockpit! Truly horrid.

Of course, for sheltered water work- you can get away with just about anything... YMMV
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:17   #9
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Re: Diesel on the hip

Thanks Wingsail. I’ll picture myself seeing myself out now
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:29   #10
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Re: Diesel on the hip

To add to similar comments above, I did make a Gulf Stream passage with diesel cans strapped to a board mounted on the stanchions. I did this once. I now know this is a bad idea; ask me how I know.......;-)
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Old 12-07-2020, 09:21   #11
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Re: Diesel on the hip

As for storing stuff outside and encountering heavy weather
I have seen a large USCG vessel litter the Gulf of Alaska with more than a few large propane bottles because they were lashed to steel handrails along the superstructure on the main weather deck about 12 ft above the waterline. Boarding seas took them away as if they were just standing there without lashings.
Back in the 1960s and 70s some USCG WHECs (255, 311, 327 and 378 ft) standing Weather/Ocean Stations in the North Atlantic would return to home port after 29 days "On Station" with EVERYTHING outside the actual superstructure missing. - external steel ladders between the main and 01 decks, Pumps and associated hoses stored in welded metal racks, Life rafts stored in metal cage racks, and even in one or two cases, the port and/or starboard inboard diesel powered motor lifeboats - along with their davit systems just gone. BTW, after the first couple of "Modern" 378s came back from winter trips to O.S. Bravo, they were pulled from rotation to the Station because open cracks were discovered along the fused/riveted seam where the aluminium superstructure was connected to the lower 01 steel deck.
I personally have seen 1" steel bolts actually pulled through 1/2" steel plate when the plate was hit by a wave. So I say plan accordingly.
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Old 12-07-2020, 09:35   #12
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Re: Diesel on the hip

Stored 4 5 gallon containers on the too large cockpi solet. Through bolted pad eyes and screwed chocks onto the sole to keep them in place. Didn't need all the space in the cockpit on a passage and they were safely out of the way even in severe conditions. At anchor, moved them onto the walkways or anywhere convenient where they were out of the way.
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Old 12-07-2020, 09:41   #13
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Re: Diesel on the hip

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Originally Posted by NSboatman View Post
Wing sail is dead right. Lashing jerry cans to stanchions should be avoided at all costs when heading offshore. I have seen them ripped off personally- a big mess as the stanchion bases sheared, and the sharp metal punctured one of the jerry cans. Another had its cap ripped off as it washed about in the scuppers and fouled the spaghetti of now jumbled lashing lines. Now imagine trying to sort this out in 35 knots, cold North Atlantic, heavy spray and occasional boarding seas, two of you crammed between the cabin sides and where the lifelines and jerry cans used to be- except all the lifelines on that side of the boat were now very slack. On top of this, the leaking diesel mixed with the boarding seas, and bathed the entire boat in a nasty, smelly, wickedly slippery emulsion of salt water and diesel. Your clothes, your foulies, your food, the settees, your pillow- it penetrates everywhere and causes most to lose their stomachs immediately.

These kind of cascade events can go from a simple small issue to truly life threatening in a few short minutes.

Poorly lashed deck gear in general is a horrid no-no offshore. Doubly so for jerry cans. I have resorted to lashin them under the salon table, or removing bunk cushions and lashing them into a bunk. And don't even get me started on those cheap- ass lash down plastic fuel bladders. Had to cut one of them free off an amel on one trip, before it burst and filled the cockpit! Truly horrid.

Of course, for sheltered water work- you can get away with just about anything... YMMV
Well, that does it - now you've scared the crap out of me - and nobody messes with my pillow



Maybe something more along these lines might be a better choice in a locker. https://www.readycontainment.com/pro...EaAo3HEALw_wcB
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Old 12-07-2020, 09:44   #14
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Re: Diesel on the hip

We had plastic jerry cans on deck for basically all of a circumnavigation including the South Africa part. Certainly had lots of solid water on deck but no problems with damage to stanchions. We also had a knockdown which did other damage but the jerry cans were fine. We used u-bolts, a 2x4 which was warped to a nice angle that pretty much followed the deck curve, and lashings. Perhaps the Bristol had more substantial pipe sections than standard, I don't know. One disadvantage of a centre cockpit is you do not have the voluminous deck lockers where you could hide a bunch of jerry cans. We also had two potable water jerry cans. When you get off the beaten track you often need to use water cans or diesel cans to provision the mothership, there are no marinas and need to go to a water spigot or the local gas station.
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Old 12-07-2020, 09:55   #15
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Re: Diesel on the hip

The cockpit well on our boat is conveniently sized to snuggly hold two 6 gallon diesel jugs and a 5 gallon gasoline jug. We store these just forward of the compass pedestal. Then we cover it all with a piece of sunbrella. Everything is protected from the sun's direct radiation. It works great for us and the jugs have never come out of place. Before you go to a lot of trouble building a rack, take your empty jugs and see if there isn't some way to store them in the cockpit where they will be out of the way and safely stored.
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