Your opinions on this Tri.

[Nicocrispi]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

...A cat gets it's max stability at about 10 degrees a tri 25 - 30 degrees. What they both have is a huge righting moment compared to a mono. The gust that puts a rail under on a mono is not going to bury the ama of a tri.

Dumping the main is the correct upwind response since the jib will continue to drive the boat.....

True and true.

Anyway, I've been talking to the best people in the field and I'm decided on the rig. In consideration of my singlehanded long cruising it will be a cutter with a small main without battens, the MastFoil and the various wingmasts are definitely out.

The hull will be a ~37' center cockpit trimaran. Type of construction and builder TBD after I visit with three builders, VA, OR, MA.

[jdazey]

Very interesting, Nico. This proposed tri is a bit smaller than you were thinking earlier. Please do keep us posted on your thoughts and build progress.

Cheers,

[Nicocrispi]

Yes Joe, much smaller. A universally respected multihuller convinced me that it is all the boat that I need. After circumnavigating with his wife on a 37 they decided that a 35 would have been a better size.

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by Nicocrispi

Yes Joe, much smaller. A universally respected multihuller convinced me that it is all the boat that I need. After circumnavigating with his wife on a 37 they decided that a 35 would have been a better size.

It seems to me that the Juniper series of tris gain their interior space by length, not by having accommodations between the hulls, like so many of the smaller tris. This makes for a better ride thru rough seas because the water won't control the lee side as much as other designs. Combined with the cat ketch, which is easy to singlehand makes the long length with its attendant speed attainable. i really like the juniper series idea. My question is why the change?
jon

[Nicocrispi]

Well Jon, once I walked away from Juniper II because of its age I remained in the Chris White camp because of the CW MastFoil and its associated ease of singlehanding.
Then I got concerned about its behaviour in very windy conditions and I spoke with a number of worldwide respected insiders who tried windmasts and had very bad experiences under bare poles in big winds. End of that rig for me.

Once I was back to conventional rigs, the cutter in particular, a ~37´ makes a lot of sense to me particularly in consideration of the reports that I got on that length of Tri. I agree with you about the pitfalls of accommodations between the hulls and even more so after I recently drove a Neel 45' during a day that started nice and turned nasty in the afternoon.

My boat to be will have a slender hull, maybe(?) a little wider bridgedeck and not tapering aft as much as some of the early constant camber Tris. Two roller furlers and a mast on the short side with a lazy jack main without battens.

[jdazey]

From an earlier post:

Originally Posted by Nicocrispi

The owner is a great guy indeed, can't say this enough!
My decision was based on "sailor know thyself" and with my history of open checkbook spending on old cars and boats it would've ended being a very lengthy and expensive restoration, not worth it on a 40 year old boat.
The alternative is a new build of ~45ft and I'm speaking with CW about it. A Hammerhead 54' minus 10 feet.

Nonetheless, it's quite a shift from a Hammerhead 54 -10' to a 37'er with a battenless main. I don't question the decision, but it's certainly a different approach to meeting his requirements.

Cheers,

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by Nicocrispi

Well Jon, once I walked away from Juniper II because of its age I remained in the Chris White camp because of the CW MastFoil and its associated ease of singlehanding.
Then I got concerned about its behaviour in very windy conditions and I spoke with a number of worldwide respected insiders who tried windmasts and had very bad experiences under bare poles in big winds.

i don't know enough about CW's MastFoil system to comment. i will research and get back to you.
blessings
jon

[longjonsilver]

i think we have two different issues here discussing the Chris White design philosophy. First is the issue of length and accommodations. For a given interior, we can either have space beneath the wing decks or we can lengthen the boat. Since reports are that the underneath of the lee wing deck affects the operation in a seaway due to slapping by the waves, the Chris White Juniper philosophy makes a lot of sense. No wing decks, longer hull makes for good speed and handling.

But, we have two forty-year-old boats here, Juniper and Carisa, and you might not want to take the risks of such old wood boats. That is your choice.

Secondly, the newer Chris White designs have the mast foil idea, and i can certainly see that unless they operate perfectly as designed, and as the designer claims they operate in high winds, then they could well be a liability as your sources say. i, for one, certainly wouldn't want to experiment with my funds and cruising time. So i can see why you are reluctant to have a mastfoil on your boat.

If i were ready to buy, i would have both Juniper and Carisa inspected by someone that knows composite construction well, for the integrity of hull, crossbeams, and deck. i really like the aspect of self-tacking for the cat ketch. i find that the Juniper and Juniper II designs to be very intriguing.

jon

[alansmith]

Nico, if u will be cruising in a trimaran if 35-37 foot where will u put everything? U can store very light things in the amas. But a long slender hull will make it a challenge to store gear and supplies. Have u made any decisions about tankage? Diesel, outboards, or motor wells? Will u have a companion with u? They like hot water and dedicated head. That takes space. I've sailed on the newer Corsairs 33. They are wonderful machines. Have u checked out the Corsair 37'? They are alit of boat for the money.

Nico, the other thing... do u know how wet a ride the trimarans are in a real seaway? It gets old in a hurry for a woman. One of the things about Juniper design was adequate freeboard and length. When u are shorter u seem to fall into holes at that length u r considering. Just some things to additionally consider. Where are u thinking of building? Have u fallen into a certain yacht designer's camp yet? Curious minds want to know which way u lean.

[tp12]

I've been checking out Tony Grainger's cruising trimaran designs and would love some feedback on them from knowledgable Tri people

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

...With any multihull the old rule of reef for the gusts works really well...

The correct rule is multihulls reef for the lulls; a monohull reefs for the gusts. A monohull can afford to be overpowered until it's time to reef in the gust, while a multi needs to be right powered at the lull strength and reefing well before the gust to remain right powered.

[catsketcher]

A 37 tri can easily be a great family cruiser. They need not be any wetter than a similar length mono or cat. As for storing stuff, people have lived aboard 35ft Nicols, 37ft Searunners and 36ft Crosses. It can be done. Women have been known to sail these boats too, even without electric gizmos. Fran Singleland sailed around the world with her partner on a 38ft Newick tri. I meet women all the time who can sail, camp, bushwalk and mountain climb. They do fine without hair dryers etc.

Nico - talking to different people will get you different answers. Not going for the Juniper tri because it is old is a bit silly if it is in great condition. A newer boat treated badly would be a bad boat, but a 30 year old boat well cared for can be better than new.

As for taking the word of one cruiser who sailed the world on a 37ft tri, well it is only one person's opinion. I for one would not build a tri, they are the same money to build for far less interior space and resale. Yet you get no increase in speed.

Buying a tri on the other hand makes good sense. Going for a particular length is problematic, 37ft can be small in a racer or cavernous in a Horstman. Both are tris yet are worlds apart. Keep talking and get sailing on lots of boats

[double u]

"...Run and hide in comfort or tough it out under staysail alone...a decision to be made between life at a 45° angle and 200 mile days..."
you're lucky guys! life is so simple for you

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by fxykty

The correct rule is multihulls reef for the lulls; a monohull reefs for the gusts. A monohull can afford to be overpowered until it's time to reef in the gust, while a multi needs to be right powered at the lull strength and reefing well before the gust to remain right powered.

Man, I'm a goof. Sorry Cavalier, you're right and the correct rule IS multis reef for the gusts. And are underpowered during the lulls.

For the OP, a performance trimaran below 50 feet will not have a lot of room and more importantly for cruising will not have very much load carrying capacity. I've had one sail on a F36 and while that's a lovely boat and suitable for ocean passages, it cannot tolerate a lot of extra weight and still sail well.

[catsketcher]

And Nico - Why no battens? A battenless main is terrible aerodynamically. I have had my main on for 17 years and about 10 000 miles of coastal cruising plus day sails for the rest. It is cruise laminate and fully battened Lovely sail with big battens. No chafe at either batten ends because it is well designed and well built. Simple too. The austlon sliders run on the flat back edge of the mast and the luff lies on this flat as well. Whole thing lashed on with webbing. I would never have a battenless main on a nice tri as the head of the main will be awfully full and terrible upwind. I don't think anyone who has had a good fully battened set up would ever go back. Look up induced drag, it will be a shocker.

Plus we can reef downwind because our rig is spreaderless.

To be honest Nico, if you can swing so far from big performance tri with free standing rig to substandard aerodynamics on smaller boat I think you are a long way off resolving your needs properly. Do lots more sailing and talking before you start putting any money down.

As for the best in the business. The three circumnavigators I know who have multis all have cats with full battens.