Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[smj]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

We anchored a few times last winter when it was very difficult hauling the anchor with no windlass. The outboard is offset so it's basically impossible to go straight forward from a dead stop. My wife is also the one that does the pulling while I steer.

So I think having SOME windlass will be a big improvement. The anchorman especial mounted to the mast will be fairly quick compared to the Lofran Royal we had on a precious boat. I don't believe it has a ton of actual mechanical advantage maybe only 8:1 perhaps less but the actually pulling in doesn't take that much power, it the breaking the anchor free that takes the power which is done with the engine/ bouyancy of bows in combo.

I thought you had twin outboards


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[smj]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

AND...

Hey Mark, great to see you back here. As my back is steadily degrading I thought it would be a good idea to purchase a Milwaukee 28v drill to help raise the main. Luckily we found a used Milwaukee with hardly any use on it for a great price, then I got to thinking. On our old Solaris Sunstar we had a manual vertical windlass that was actually pretty quick in raising the anchor. So why not have the same type windlass and use the Milwaukee as the power when need be. The Milwaukee has already been purchased and the extra weight, cost and hassle of wiring a full time electric windlass in place wouldn't be needed. I started a thread on CF concerning this a week or so ago and had some great input. Lisa says she is fine raising the anchor by hand, which would still be an option though harder to stow the chain with the windlass in the way. Any thoughts on this idea?


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[Boatguy30]

Last winter I had my Yamaha T8 main engine and an evinrude 9.9 2 stroke "wing" engine. They are laid out symmetrically, but the only controls are on the T8 on the starboard and small chartplotter is also on starboard side. The wing engine is tiller controlled.


I only ran the evinrude maybe 10 hours last winter and am replacing it with a 1967 Evinrude 5hp with stock 15" extension as shown in the Searunner Construction Manual. Got back to Ft Pierce inlet and that rusty piece on all the Yamaha bendex got jammed between the gear and the flywheel, even with a manual start would have not worked as flywheel was totally stuck. Then went to start the 9.9 and wire had come loose from switch that carries full amps, but that did have a pull start! All whilst we sere basically at the jetty and this was with 1/2 the channel obstructed with that salvage barge that was there several weeks last spring.


On upside, the wind came up again from the east and probably would have been able to sail eight in. Was also dark with a good size 70' commercial boat coming out with major thunderstorms all around. So yeah, maybe twin diesels would be nice sometimes but clearly I'm moving in the other directions maximizing sailing performance.

[Boatguy30]

You'll need find an anchorman with top winch drum and gypsy as mine is gypsy only and the handle does mot mount on center so drill would not work.

[sea dragon]

I have a 2 speed manual windlass like the one in the photo.
I'ts great and breaks the hook free.
The trouble is the slow speed getting all the gear in.
In tight, windy,rough conditions,there isn't time for that.
That's where a power windlass of some sort would be worth it's weight in gold.
Especially for someone like me with a bad back to start with

[Roy M]

seadragon, I use a Lewmar V2, vertical capstan windlass mounted on the foredeck. I also have wired the rocker switches to control it from several locations. That way, you aren't even bending over to haul the anchor. In fact, I can retrieve and deploy the anchor from the helm, and even from the bilge lockers where the chain passes through, if I'm single-handing. Because I've changed so many foot switches for other people's boats, my bow location is mounted on the pulpit, where I can hang on in rough weather and keep my feet out of the way of the moving chain. I'm VERY happy to have a powerful windlass.

[Mark Johnson]

Hi AJ...
I don't have any first hand experience with raising the main (or anything else) with a battery powered drill.
It is worth a try... although for raising the main I find that if your technique is right, it is pretty easy. You can grab the halyard with both hands (at eye level) and with elbows to your chest, then just bend your knees, allowing only your body weight to do the work. This works only up until the weight of the main + all friction is still = to < your body weight. For a guy your size, I doubt that it is heavier.
.

You could also put in a "clutch" above where you grip, so that when you re-grip, and momentarily hold the halyard with one hand, the clutch holds 100% of the weight, and actually allows you to rest if needed, between pulls. This way you are ALWAYS pulling with BOTH hands on the line and never pulling hand over hand!

EXAMPLE:
I use a clutch on my roller furling control line, and it allows me to roll in the headsail by myself, with one hand, while also steering. HOW? I wrap the reefing/furling line around my left hand, head up quickly while steering with my right hand until she luffs a bit, and then pull the reefing line with my body only. (I keep my arm straight and just lean in 2'). Then I QUICKLY fall off to stay out of irons. Next I re-grip with the left hand, head up, pull the line, and fall off... After several rounds like this she is mostly rolled up and I can pull it the rest of the way hand over hand. ITS EASY!
In a REALLY strong wind or course, we head down wind to roll it up, blanketed by the mainsl.

Applying this clutch idea to your main halyard, you could take your back issues out of the equation.


GROUND TACKLE:
For my previous two boats AND the first 10 years with Delphys, I just used a mostly rope rode with boatlength of 1/4" HT/G4 chain. (250'total) I tried a LOT of combinations over that 30+ years, and found that this was fine for the East Coast USA, Keys, Gulf Coast, most of Central America, and most of the Bahamas.

I finally settled on this:
I used a 5/8" platt nylon like NERs Mega Braid. (NOT three strand). Three strand is 10X more hassle to handle because it coils up and hockles when you pull it in quickly, as required.

SMALLER 1/2" line is what I now use with a windlass, only because it can chain/rope splice with my 1/4" chain, so it works with a rope/chain gypsy like we have. Thing is, 1/2" is harder to pull in by hand, so for my old hand pulled rode, I used 5/8" rope for a better grip.

This larger line was married to the 1/4" chain with a Crosby shackle through the rope's thimble. It was by necessity too weak a shackle to match the rope OR the chain, but for my smaller boats it was OK. (Only in the larger 3/8" size, is a STRONG Alloy = HT compatible shackle available).

When I moved up to Delphys from the much smaller SC 28, I up sized the boatlength of HT chain to 5/8", so that I could move up to this larger = strength compatible shackle.

I also later used an EXPENSIVE WASSA ball & socket swivel to connect to the anchor, and consider it the only safe SS swivel.
Why? I preferred using a swivel even though its use is controversial, because with a mostly rope rode, (VS mostly or all chain with a windlass) when you pull in the anchor after a week on the hook, you might have 30 twists in the chain, with many of them next to the anchor. This will not work with the nifty chain tensioner that I have used from the beginning.
For folks that like to island hop, a device like this is soo cool. it allows the anchor to instantly be pulled in SO tightly that it does not move or rattle in the roller. Thing is, even one twist in the chain and the pre adjusted chain tension is off measurement, so it will not work. I have anchored thousands of times, and this system has served me well. I can reliably deploy or stow the anchor in just a few seconds... I do, however, keep a close eye on the SS swivel, which is still pristine after 15 years. With this design only, there are no unseen places where crevice corrosion can lurk.

UPPING ANCHOR:
For a rope/chain rode. pulling the hook out of the bottom is EASY. When I was single handed a lot of the time, I would do my best to motor directly over the anchor first, and it might take two runs back to the helm. This was followed by QUICKLY running forward and pulling in rode! Then if I was still laying to the rode portion I would cleat it, or more often than not, (since I anchor in 7' a lot), I would attach my SS chain "fork" (not chain "hook"), to the chain leader.
CHAIN FORKS are easier on the chain and on the deck. My chain fork has a 4' tail that I cleat to the bow cleat when anchoring. When anchored out I lay totally to the bridle, but keep the chain fork or rope rode cleated as a safety.

Once the rode is more or less vertical, a little time or reverse thrust will pull it out of the bottom. Worse case requires a bit of bouncing on the stern. You can even motor over the hook, but might bend it this way. I did once... Patience pays here.

Another advantage of the mostly rope rode is that when NOT loaded, (because a helmsperson is motoring up for you), you can pull in the rode REALLY fast and REALLY easy. USE GLOVES! You can also cleat off the rode QUICKLY in an emergency, in like... 2 seconds VS 8 seconds. Also, if your boat has been forced perpendicular to the rode because the wind blew the bow off, the now tight rode will not gouge the ama like chain will. It will take bottom paint off, but that's all.

CAVEAT:
Bear in mind that with a mostly rope rode, when the wind is not really blowing, that line is snaking all over the bottom. If it is pristine sand or mud this is safe enough, but on rock, old coral, or hardpan, it can be disastrous. (Of course... TRY to NEVER anchor on our precious coral)!!! On these types of harsh bottoms I use a small dinghy fender to pick up the end of the chain about 6' off of the bottom.
I also used to dive on the entire swinging circle to inspect for the risks, when I laid to mostly rope in the clear waters of the Bahamas or Fl Keys. At the same time, I might just find dinner!

MORE CHAIN = NEEDING AN ELECTRIC WINDLASS:
Only when we decided to cruise the Eastern Caribbean with its deep anchorages and harsh bottom, did I decide on using 130+' of chain. This was safer in many ways, it could handle a harsher bottom, and in marginal holding the chain helps hold the boat as well. If it is not too windy, I might shorten up to 6/1 scope with mostly chain, but when room allows, I still use 7/1. I would never go back now, but ONLY because I have a proper windlass.

We set out on our last Caribbean cruise by first heading from Pensacola Fl to the upper Chesapeake, to wait out H season. This whole time I never anchored in more than 10' of water, so the long chain was no problem. In fact, it was smaller chain than I had been used to, so was easier. Only when we were anchoring down island in > 40' of water, with 25+ knots of wind and 2' chop, did it became a deal breaker.

For you AJ, cruising the Bahamas & Keys, I think a mostly rope rode will suffice. A windlass is GREAT IF it is perfect, but in the way if it is not. It is in no way necessary to pull the hook out of the bottom, however.

MECHANICAL WINDLASSES:
Laying to mostly rope you can use a vertical "mechanical" windlass to pull the boat forward, but only if it has a rope/chain gypsy that will really grip, and proper locker. With the drum only type, you need someone to tail, leaving no one at the helm when the hook pulls out. YIKES!

HMMMM:
There is no easy fix here. You could install an extra OB motor, so you could power up with such accuracy that Lisa could deal with a mostly rope rode. (or vise-versa) You could also put in a proper electric windlass at about the same costs... Think of what your co-pays at the doctor add up to! For a fit young man the "grunt it in" method is fine, but...

IF YOU HAVE NO WINDLASS, the mostly rope rode works best IF you bring the rode on deck REALLY quickly as the boat motors forward, rather than slowly stuff it into a haws hole to be stored down below. Then after the anchor is secure on its roller and the boat is under way, flake it out in the anchor rode locker. You already have this set up.

The photos below are of the anchor rode locker that I started out with on Delphys. It was a plastic hatch over a 6 gallon flower pot that I got from WallyWorld. This bucket had a 1" through hull fitting with hose, that routed out the side of the hull. I first built a trim ring under the deck to bolt the flower pot to, gaskets and all! It was STRONG as well as water and vapor proof. I love quick & cheep solutions... when they REALLY ARE solutions!

Later, when installing our windlass in Trinidad, I got rid of the bucket rode locker, but left the hatch over it and glued down trim ring. I then put a floor under this old trim ring, and now it houses the coiled up washdown hose. Perfect!

In your case, you could install a proper windlass for mostly chain rode, for about $2,000, and it would be EASY compared to my installation, because you already have a self bailing locker for the rode, which I did not. (My bucket was not nearly enough chain drop, nor was it in the correct location).

You could also go with a mostly "rope" rode and electric windlass, as the new designs, like my "Quick" brand with MegaBraid rope, will still grip about 80% as strongly as to the chain!

The thing about being in pain is that wherever you go, you take that with you. I know this all too well. Be careful with your back, and as a person who NEVER thought a 34' trimaran like mine should have a windlass, I changed my mind. It is money well spent, especially for us "old cruisers" with back problems.
Mark

[smj]

Hi Mark, thanks for the reply. I'm able to get the mainsail to full hoist under my weight alone, but it still seems to put a stress on the back. We have a clutch on the mast and I'm sure that may help, thanks for the suggestion. Being able to raise the main with the drill I think will work very well, as long as I know when to let go of the trigger as I'm sure the Milwaukee could do some real damage!
At this point in time Lisa says she would rather raise the anchor by hand. We will probably replace the 40+ feet of 3/8"BBB with 100' of the 1/4" HT. Probably about the same weight and a lot easier to handle. The 1/4" has served us well on our other cats of similar length and is still light enough to be able to pull up by hand. If I run across a deal I can't pass up on an electric or manual windlass then we may go that route. Right now the focus is on making the boat livable but keeping her light.


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[Cadence]

Originally Posted by smj

Hi Mark, thanks for the reply. I'm able to get the mainsail to full hoist under my weight alone, but it still seems to put a stress on the back. We have a clutch on the mast and I'm sure that may help, thanks for the suggestion. Being able to raise the main with the drill I think will work very well, as long as I know when to let go of the trigger as I'm sure the Milwaukee could do some real damage!
At this point in time Lisa says she would rather raise the anchor by hand. We will probably replace the 40+ feet of 3/8"BBB with 100' of the 1/4" HT. Probably about the same weight and a lot easier to handle. The 1/4" has served us well on our other cats of similar length and is still light enough to be able to pull up by hand. If I run across a deal I can't pass up on an electric or manual windlass then we may go that route. Right now the focus is on making the boat livable but keeping her light.


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As said before. I had a right angle 110V Milwaukee drill that would turn you over.
Do they not make a battery job with a clutch as for driving screws?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Cadence

As said before. I had a right angle 110V Milwaukee drill that would turn you over.
Do they not make a battery job with a clutch as for driving screws?

The Milwaukee 28v battery powered right angle drill that we have purchased has about the same torque as the 110v model. As long as the battery can handle the load I think it will be a viable option.


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[Cadence]

Originally Posted by smj

The Milwaukee 28v battery powered right angle drill that we have purchased has about the same torque as the 110v model. As long as the battery can handle the load I think it will be a viable option.


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Be careful and best of luck.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Be careful and best of luck.

Thanks! And if we get a manual windlass and use the Milwaukee as the power I will report back.


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[Cavalier MK2]

In Alaska we used a battery powered drill to handline fish off the side of the seine boat at anchor. We called it fishing by Black and Decker. (You don't want your best drill by the salt water.)

I agree about mostly rope rodes, even a 2 speed sheet winch could work if it was mounted vertically, say on the mast with a snatch block forward for the rode. I do the hand routine and find kicking the motor forward in big winds is enough.

On chutes, I've used both but prefer the control and non collapsing gibes of the symmetrical. It is like having a square rig downwind. Used Chutes are way cheaper too. The thing to look for is a flatter one out of 1.5 oz like a starcut for all around use. These can reach much higher and handle the big loads.

Ditto about getting a chute down soon enough, as the wind increases you have to go more directly downwind, we've gotten caught with sudden wind past 30 in fiords. here being in control dead downwind really helps when it is time to get things down in a hurry. For close reaching in light air I have a light, full jib set flying as a code 0.

[Mr Big]

Searunner 31 sails for sale...

NOT MINE! I saw these listed on another forum and thought someone here might be able to use 'em.

He says they are in So. Cal. Please contact the seller and not me, as I know nothing more than I posted here.

He says he has 5 available, not sure what or what kind of shape they are in...Good Luck!

Sellers email: kenedove@yahoo.com

[Sea Otter Jim]

Here is a photo from our first race of the season a week ago.11 boats total finished 5 overall weather was great in low 80s.next race in 2 weeks.