Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-06-2021, 10:29   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 62
Thinking about a cat

Iím looking at a life change and moving onto a boat full time. Iíve been around boats forever but never lived on one. The cats hold a lot of appeal for on the hook living, but less appealing for dock life of course. Iím just a single dude for now, so Iíd be doing a lot of single handing and chilling out. I like the floor plan on the Gemini but the narrower beam confuses me. I also donít like the pilot position on them. Why would they make a narrow beam on a cat? Then I discovered the pdq36 and that boat looks fantastic for a smaller cat, that might be in my budget. Which is small. Great floor plan, love the head design, love pilot position and rigging, love solid glass below water, and love their safety history and proven design. Big crossings arenít on my agenda yet but maybe some day, but shipping the boat is always an option I suppose.
So, for my research, what boats are similar class to pdq 36? Iíd prefer a slightly more performance leaning hull, but not super light or super fast. I prefer galley down but a hybrid up/down would also work. Two cabins or three is fine, and I really want a separate enclosed shower, or possibility to make one. Iím handy but I think Iíll pass on sunk boats at the moment. Maybe for my next boat if I get there. Iíd really love an aluminum hull but Iím open to glass however I will not entertain wood coring, unless yíall can convince me otherwise. Iíve seen it go wrong too many times.
SV WELDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2021, 16:15   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,064
Re: Thinking about a cat

Narrow beam cats are built so they fit in standard width slips.

Next question to ask yourself is...why are there very few narrow beam cats?

Whether a full beam cat is a disadvantage for dock space depends a LOT on the venue. What are you thinking of docking this boat?
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2021, 16:19   #3
Registered User
 
carlosproa's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami
Boat: EDELCAT33
Posts: 448
Images: 2
Re: Thinking about a cat

What a your budget?
carlosproa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2021, 17:09   #4
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 4,604
Re: Thinking about a cat

Also the Gem started out as a 30’. They grew over time except the beam stayed the same.
__________________
We don't need no stinking badges.
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2021, 19:34   #5
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 5,798
Re: Thinking about a cat

You could look at the Victory 35 or the Packet cat 35, neither will have good performance but would probably make good liveaboardís
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2021, 20:00   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Folly Beach, SC
Boat: O'Day 34
Posts: 16
Re: Thinking about a cat

Have you looked for a Prout Snowgoose? It's the only cat I've briefly considered before opting for a monohull.

Not to bash cats, to each their own, but the key reasons they are not my cup of tea are:

1) Cost (both purchase, docking and maintenance)
2) Physics/design (the structure of 2 hulls on a cat always wants to get separated, the structure on a mono hull is being squeezed together)
3) Flip a mono and you have a bad day, flip a cat and you have a really bad day
4) Selection and variety of available vessels and accessories
5) Layout and complications for heating, cooling, weight distribution

Some advantages that I considered:
1) Speed
2) Privacy when not sailing single-handed
3) You can dry them out (even though a bilge keel mono would do that too)
MartinFr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2021, 20:34   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Daytona Beach, FL, USA
Boat: Douglas 32, duh...32'
Posts: 80
Re: Thinking about a cat

Prout Snowgoose:
---comments from an infidel, I have owned / cruised mostly on monohulls---
-Personally I got awfully tired of navigation and galley being in separate hulls: 1-go over to starboard hull to get the water heating for coffee, 2-go back to port hull to continue working at chart table, 3-go over to starboard hull to make the coffee, 4-take coffee back to port hull to continue work on navigation.


-Speed if loaded for a long passage:
From Gibraltar to Canaries, it was very fast. From Canaries to Barbados--now loaded with provisions for 5 crew--we were beaten by a Westsail 32! (We had a cruising spinnaker, they had twin genoas poled out.)
__________________
I must go down to the shore again,
the lonely shore and the sea
And all I ask is a small ship.....and a frontal lobotomy
Enfant Du Vent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2021, 22:01   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 62
Re: Thinking about a cat

It’s interesting that just a little weight makes a big difference in speed on the cats. Yes they are a compromise but just knowing mySelf, I love to get into shallow water and I end up hitting the bottom more than I should. Plus in crowded harbors I can imagine that shallow draft boats might have an easier time finding room. Yes I’m looking at prout. Budget around 100k I think is doable.
SV WELDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2021, 22:04   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 62
Re: Thinking about a cat

I really like the pilot position looking over the main cabin but under a hard or soft top. Somewhat obstructs view to boom but I’ve seen effective looking windows on some.
SV WELDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2021, 04:23   #10
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,840
Re: Thinking about a cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinFr View Post
Have you looked for a Prout Snowgoose? It's the only cat I've briefly considered before opting for a monohull.

Not to bash cats, to each their own, but the key reasons they are not my cup of tea are:

1) Cost (both purchase, docking and maintenance)
2) Physics/design (the structure of 2 hulls on a cat always wants to get separated, the structure on a mono hull is being squeezed together)
3) Flip a mono and you have a bad day, flip a cat and you have a really bad day
4) Selection and variety of available vessels and accessories
5) Layout and complications for heating, cooling, weight distribution

Some advantages that I considered:
1) Speed
2) Privacy when not sailing single-handed
3) You can dry them out (even though a bilge keel mono would do that too)


Just remember that the speed difference goes in favor of monohulls once you equalize cost. So a production cat in 40 foot range costs the same as a production 50 foot mono roughly, and the latter will be faster.
High performance cats will be faster than all if you have millions to spend
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2021, 09:54   #11
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Currently cruising the eastern Caribbean
Boat: Lagoon 42, Minx
Posts: 224
Re: Thinking about a cat

Look for one of the older sub-40' Lagoons or FPs. More robust than the current offerings and ideal for single handling.
singlespeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2021, 09:55   #12
Registered User
 
gulfcoastsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Boat: Freedom 32
Posts: 206
Images: 2
Re: Thinking about a cat

Hi ~ Sorry; if you mentioned it I missed it. Is there a wife in the picture? If so, what you want is immaterial. 😜. If not, buy a condo in a marina. Why? I donít recall any part of your inquiry regarding sailing characteristics or operation of a cat.🤔 But hey, I may have missed that too. Iím bad that way. Condo will save you $$$ but still give you the water front experience. Good luck no matter which way you go😉.
gulfcoastsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2021, 10:52   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: So Cal
Posts: 890
Re: Thinking about a cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV WELDER View Post
Iím looking at a life change and moving onto a boat full time. Iíve been around boats forever but never lived on one. The cats hold a lot of appeal for on the hook living, but less appealing for dock life of course. Iím just a single dude for now, so Iíd be doing a lot of single handing and chilling out. I like the floor plan on the Gemini but the narrower beam confuses me. I also donít like the pilot position on them. Why would they make a narrow beam on a cat? Then I discovered the pdq36 and that boat looks fantastic for a smaller cat, that might be in my budget. Which is small. Great floor plan, love the head design, love pilot position and rigging, love solid glass below water, and love their safety history and proven design. Big crossings arenít on my agenda yet but maybe some day, but shipping the boat is always an option I suppose.
So, for my research, what boats are similar class to pdq 36? Iíd prefer a slightly more performance leaning hull, but not super light or super fast. I prefer galley down but a hybrid up/down would also work. Two cabins or three is fine, and I really want a separate enclosed shower, or possibility to make one. Iím handy but I think Iíll pass on sunk boats at the moment. Maybe for my next boat if I get there. Iíd really love an aluminum hull but Iím open to glass however I will not entertain wood coring, unless yíall can convince me otherwise. Iíve seen it go wrong too many times.
Sounds like an F boat (after Ian Farrier) like a Corsair might be a good fit for you. They're collapsible trimarans so you can put one on a trailer and haul it around if you want and they're faster than snot. Probably not as suitable as a live aboard as a traditional cat but the new ones use closed cell foam in the coring (I too dislike the balsa wood coring method, but that's what you'll get in an older catamaran.) Just be aware, these boats ain't cheap - even the used ones can carry a hefty price tag.
joelhemington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2021, 12:36   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,457
Re: Thinking about a cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Narrow beam cats are built so they fit in standard width slips.

Next question to ask yourself is...why are there very few narrow beam cats?
We lived on and cruised with a Gemini for around 9yrs. Our next boat is likely going to be a Gemini again (so take the bias as you will).

Yes, getting into slips is a big driver for keeping the beam reasonable. Very few cruisers are in a position to cruise full time and for most that means they need to get into a slip.

It was not uncommon to have to explain why we shouldn't have to pay the 50% surcharge for a slip for a catamaran (we never did pay any extra). Eventually, we took the tact of giving the boat dimensions and not telling them it's a catamaran.

As far as why there are very few narrow beam cats? Well, I believe the Gemini is one of the most common cruising catamarans out there with a 40yr production run. Most of the 36ft or under cats are in the 14-16ft range with just a few significantly wider.

Back to the OPs original post:
- The helm position works nice in bad weather as most have a helm seat under the dodger. We were often out in rain with t-shirt and shorts while cruisers with unprotected helms were in full weather gear">foul weather gear. The rear windows drop down, you can see just fine thru the windshield. In nice weather, we would sometimes sit up on the side seats.
- If you want a performance catamaran, keep them light. Of course, liveaboard conflicts with that as you have to carry your household on a 30-35ft cat. We had occasion to empty a lot of stuff out while preparing for winter storage a few times and she was 0.5-1.0 kts faster running light.
- Probably the biggest advantage to the Gemini (not the newer Legacy models) is the shallow draft. It's amazing the shallow water you can sneak into. Also, with boards, if you take the time to learn how to use them, performance can be pretty impressive.
- Aluminum needs a larger size to make sense on a cat. Once you get the hull thick enough for puncture resistance, the hulls are significantly heavier than an equivalent glass hull. At 50ft, aluminum is much more competitive vs glass.
- Galley Up vs Down: On cats where down, is 3-4ft below the bridge deck, you are highly isolated from guests at the dinette. On the Gemini, you are only about 1ft down, so unless you are really short (under 5ft), you aren't isolated. We also had a Catalac 10m and while the same general size, it was worlds different if someone was down at the galley, they were isolated.
- I don't know of anyone using wood coring below the waterline but just about everyone has it on the deck. Yes, it's a maintenance issue but the alternative is a much heavier deck.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2021, 12:40   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,457
Re: Thinking about a cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelhemington View Post
Sounds like an F boat (after Ian Farrier) like a Corsair might be a good fit for you. They're collapsible trimarans so you can put one on a trailer and haul it around if you want and they're faster than snot. Probably not as suitable as a live aboard as a traditional cat but the new ones use closed cell foam in the coring (I too dislike the balsa wood coring method, but that's what you'll get in an older catamaran.) Just be aware, these boats ain't cheap - even the used ones can carry a hefty price tag.
For performance day sailing and an occasional weekend trip, I would agree that a trimaran can be a great option and will blow away these 30-36ft cruising catamarans (there are performance cats in this size range that can compete but likewise come at the cost of accommodations).

For liveaboard, the small tris are going to be a very spartan lifestyle. Drastically different from the cruising cats under discussion.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So I am thinking about a cat? stevensuf Multihull Sailboats 104 26-08-2018 06:54
Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy? C-man77 Multihull Sailboats 84 03-10-2015 20:07
Thinking of Selling your Cat ? POH Multihull Sailboats 58 01-09-2012 06:43
Thinking about building a hugh trailer for 50' cat craig boorman Multihull Sailboats 3 23-07-2006 19:12

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.