Thinking about a cat

[SV WELDER]

I’m looking at a life change and moving onto a boat full time. I’ve been around boats forever but never lived on one. The cats hold a lot of appeal for on the hook living, but less appealing for dock life of course. I’m just a single dude for now, so I’d be doing a lot of single handing and chilling out. I like the floor plan on the Gemini but the narrower beam confuses me. I also don’t like the pilot position on them. Why would they make a narrow beam on a cat? Then I discovered the pdq36 and that boat looks fantastic for a smaller cat, that might be in my budget. Which is small. Great floor plan, love the head design, love pilot position and rigging, love solid glass below water, and love their safety history and proven design. Big crossings aren’t on my agenda yet but maybe some day, but shipping the boat is always an option I suppose.
So, for my research, what boats are similar class to pdq 36? I’d prefer a slightly more performance leaning hull, but not super light or super fast. I prefer galley down but a hybrid up/down would also work. Two cabins or three is fine, and I really want a separate enclosed shower, or possibility to make one. I’m handy but I think I’ll pass on sunk boats at the moment. Maybe for my next boat if I get there. I’d really love an aluminum hull but I’m open to glass however I will not entertain wood coring, unless y’all can convince me otherwise. I’ve seen it go wrong too many times.

[belizesailor]

Narrow beam cats are built so they fit in standard width slips.

Next question to ask yourself is...why are there very few narrow beam cats?

Whether a full beam cat is a disadvantage for dock space depends a LOT on the venue. What are you thinking of docking this boat?

[carlosproa]

What a your budget?

[Sand crab]

Also the Gem started out as a 30’. They grew over time except the beam stayed the same.

[smj]

You could look at the Victory 35 or the Packet cat 35, neither will have good performance but would probably make good liveaboard’s

[MartinFr]

Have you looked for a Prout Snowgoose? It's the only cat I've briefly considered before opting for a monohull.

Not to bash cats, to each their own, but the key reasons they are not my cup of tea are:

1) Cost (both purchase, docking and maintenance)
2) Physics/design (the structure of 2 hulls on a cat always wants to get separated, the structure on a mono hull is being squeezed together)
3) Flip a mono and you have a bad day, flip a cat and you have a really bad day
4) Selection and variety of available vessels and accessories
5) Layout and complications for heating, cooling, weight distribution

Some advantages that I considered:
1) Speed
2) Privacy when not sailing single-handed
3) You can dry them out (even though a bilge keel mono would do that too)

[Enfant Du Vent]

Prout Snowgoose:
---comments from an infidel, I have owned / cruised mostly on monohulls---
-Personally I got awfully tired of navigation and galley being in separate hulls: 1-go over to starboard hull to get the water heating for coffee, 2-go back to port hull to continue working at chart table, 3-go over to starboard hull to make the coffee, 4-take coffee back to port hull to continue work on navigation.


-Speed if loaded for a long passage:
From Gibraltar to Canaries, it was very fast. From Canaries to Barbados--now loaded with provisions for 5 crew--we were beaten by a Westsail 32! (We had a cruising spinnaker, they had twin genoas poled out.)

[SV WELDER]

It’s interesting that just a little weight makes a big difference in speed on the cats. Yes they are a compromise but just knowing mySelf, I love to get into shallow water and I end up hitting the bottom more than I should. Plus in crowded harbors I can imagine that shallow draft boats might have an easier time finding room. Yes I’m looking at prout. Budget around 100k I think is doable.

[SV WELDER]

I really like the pilot position looking over the main cabin but under a hard or soft top. Somewhat obstructs view to boom but I’ve seen effective looking windows on some.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by MartinFr

Have you looked for a Prout Snowgoose? It's the only cat I've briefly considered before opting for a monohull.

Not to bash cats, to each their own, but the key reasons they are not my cup of tea are:

1) Cost (both purchase, docking and maintenance)
2) Physics/design (the structure of 2 hulls on a cat always wants to get separated, the structure on a mono hull is being squeezed together)
3) Flip a mono and you have a bad day, flip a cat and you have a really bad day
4) Selection and variety of available vessels and accessories
5) Layout and complications for heating, cooling, weight distribution

Some advantages that I considered:
1) Speed
2) Privacy when not sailing single-handed
3) You can dry them out (even though a bilge keel mono would do that too)

Just remember that the speed difference goes in favor of monohulls once you equalize cost. So a production cat in 40 foot range costs the same as a production 50 foot mono roughly, and the latter will be faster.
High performance cats will be faster than all if you have millions to spend

[singlespeed]

Look for one of the older sub-40' Lagoons or FPs. More robust than the current offerings and ideal for single handling.

[gulfcoastsailor]

Hi ~ Sorry; if you mentioned it I missed it. Is there a wife in the picture? If so, what you want is immaterial. 😜. If not, buy a condo in a marina. Why? I don’t recall any part of your inquiry regarding sailing characteristics or operation of a cat.🤔 But hey, I may have missed that too. I’m bad that way. Condo will save you $$$ but still give you the water front experience. Good luck no matter which way you go😉.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by SV WELDER

I’m looking at a life change and moving onto a boat full time. I’ve been around boats forever but never lived on one. The cats hold a lot of appeal for on the hook living, but less appealing for dock life of course. I’m just a single dude for now, so I’d be doing a lot of single handing and chilling out. I like the floor plan on the Gemini but the narrower beam confuses me. I also don’t like the pilot position on them. Why would they make a narrow beam on a cat? Then I discovered the pdq36 and that boat looks fantastic for a smaller cat, that might be in my budget. Which is small. Great floor plan, love the head design, love pilot position and rigging, love solid glass below water, and love their safety history and proven design. Big crossings aren’t on my agenda yet but maybe some day, but shipping the boat is always an option I suppose.
So, for my research, what boats are similar class to pdq 36? I’d prefer a slightly more performance leaning hull, but not super light or super fast. I prefer galley down but a hybrid up/down would also work. Two cabins or three is fine, and I really want a separate enclosed shower, or possibility to make one. I’m handy but I think I’ll pass on sunk boats at the moment. Maybe for my next boat if I get there. I’d really love an aluminum hull but I’m open to glass however I will not entertain wood coring, unless y’all can convince me otherwise. I’ve seen it go wrong too many times.

Sounds like an F boat (after Ian Farrier) like a Corsair might be a good fit for you. They're collapsible trimarans so you can put one on a trailer and haul it around if you want and they're faster than snot. Probably not as suitable as a live aboard as a traditional cat but the new ones use closed cell foam in the coring (I too dislike the balsa wood coring method, but that's what you'll get in an older catamaran.) Just be aware, these boats ain't cheap - even the used ones can carry a hefty price tag.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Narrow beam cats are built so they fit in standard width slips.

Next question to ask yourself is...why are there very few narrow beam cats?

We lived on and cruised with a Gemini for around 9yrs. Our next boat is likely going to be a Gemini again (so take the bias as you will).

Yes, getting into slips is a big driver for keeping the beam reasonable. Very few cruisers are in a position to cruise full time and for most that means they need to get into a slip.

It was not uncommon to have to explain why we shouldn't have to pay the 50% surcharge for a slip for a catamaran (we never did pay any extra). Eventually, we took the tact of giving the boat dimensions and not telling them it's a catamaran.

As far as why there are very few narrow beam cats? Well, I believe the Gemini is one of the most common cruising catamarans out there with a 40yr production run. Most of the 36ft or under cats are in the 14-16ft range with just a few significantly wider.

Back to the OPs original post:
- The helm position works nice in bad weather as most have a helm seat under the dodger. We were often out in rain with t-shirt and shorts while cruisers with unprotected helms were in full weather gear">foul weather gear. The rear windows drop down, you can see just fine thru the windshield. In nice weather, we would sometimes sit up on the side seats.
- If you want a performance catamaran, keep them light. Of course, liveaboard conflicts with that as you have to carry your household on a 30-35ft cat. We had occasion to empty a lot of stuff out while preparing for winter storage a few times and she was 0.5-1.0 kts faster running light.
- Probably the biggest advantage to the Gemini (not the newer Legacy models) is the shallow draft. It's amazing the shallow water you can sneak into. Also, with boards, if you take the time to learn how to use them, performance can be pretty impressive.
- Aluminum needs a larger size to make sense on a cat. Once you get the hull thick enough for puncture resistance, the hulls are significantly heavier than an equivalent glass hull. At 50ft, aluminum is much more competitive vs glass.
- Galley Up vs Down: On cats where down, is 3-4ft below the bridge deck, you are highly isolated from guests at the dinette. On the Gemini, you are only about 1ft down, so unless you are really short (under 5ft), you aren't isolated. We also had a Catalac 10m and while the same general size, it was worlds different if someone was down at the galley, they were isolated.
- I don't know of anyone using wood coring below the waterline but just about everyone has it on the deck. Yes, it's a maintenance issue but the alternative is a much heavier deck.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

Sounds like an F boat (after Ian Farrier) like a Corsair might be a good fit for you. They're collapsible trimarans so you can put one on a trailer and haul it around if you want and they're faster than snot. Probably not as suitable as a live aboard as a traditional cat but the new ones use closed cell foam in the coring (I too dislike the balsa wood coring method, but that's what you'll get in an older catamaran.) Just be aware, these boats ain't cheap - even the used ones can carry a hefty price tag.

For performance day sailing and an occasional weekend trip, I would agree that a trimaran can be a great option and will blow away these 30-36ft cruising catamarans (there are performance cats in this size range that can compete but likewise come at the cost of accommodations).

For liveaboard, the small tris are going to be a very spartan lifestyle. Drastically different from the cruising cats under discussion.