Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

[fairview]

Originally Posted by David Mark

How old are you ? are you mechanically inclined ? like any project make a list of everything involved and put a number to it . that will tell you if its a good deal or are you going to just end up at a price of a boat that you could buy today make payments and at the end have years of sailing instead of building . I have been a boat builder, kitchen remodeler all my life but when it came to the time to get a boat I would buy one complete ,sail it , and sell it and buy a new one ending up with our Seawind 1160 in California U S A . good luck and happy sailing or building !!! both are a lot of fun !!!

Hi thanks for your input, I'm 40 yrs old, had powerboats my whole life, modified a few. I've built several classic cars from the ground up including the mechanical side of things, built my own house etc. so safe to say I can lend my hand at most things.
I've built a list of components/parts required to get this cat functional on the water and believe that I can do it for under half of what a good second hand cloud 10 will cost ($100k-$160k). As a builder in general I am keen to build this the way I want it and the satisfaction of doing so.

[fairview]

Originally Posted by hobopacket

Looks awesome other than all the work ahead of you.

Thankyou

[fairview]

Originally Posted by redhead

I can't say if it's a good buy or not, but....



IF you decide to go ahead I strongly urge you to keep the boat close to where you live. 15 years ago we bought a boat that needed "everything" and it was several hours travel from our home. Very bad idea. Life kept getting in the way and we had to stop the project.



Ideally, you should be able to get to the boat in a short drive if you have a spare hour after work, or run over to get a measurement from the boat if you're working something up in your garage.



Good luck if you go ahead!

We will be living with the cat, so you could say close by [emoji16]

[fairview]

Originally Posted by jkindredpdx

Welcome... My wild guess, unless you are working full time on it, you have years of work ahead of you. I'd also guess at least $30k in materials and $100k worth of labor. There's a reason they are selling the shell.

Thanks mate, confirmed what I was thinking, I've thrown my job and sold my house to work on her full time.

[fairview]

Originally Posted by baycruiser

DONT PROCRASTINATE GET ON WITH IT.good luk and stay in touch if I can help .houseboat hulls will cost that much.Dont try to steal it. reply with your email I am also in qld and had a lot of experience...john

Hi John, thanks for your reply. Wise words.
My email earthmoving1@live.com

[fairview]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I hope you have a lot of fortitude. Can the seller verify the construction?

Best of luck.

One of the builders has left a comment below. What a small world!

[fairview]

Originally Posted by FionaJC

I started building a boat from scratch, I then found one which was internally a wreck but it was mostly there. It was a 34ft ketch. after six years it was on the water. Four more years and the loan was paid off. I am still working on it and sailing although I had to replace an engine. Purchase price £12K items spent £12K (mast, sails and engine were supplied) Value £30K. I could have bought one and spent more time sailing at the same price. But what we have now is customised to us so it was worth it. I did the work 1/2 mile away and its now six miles away in a marina.

If you want the fun of working on a design and the one you have here will take years and cost a lot, thats part of the fun. If you think its a cheap way to get sailing it isnt, and it will delay you. I am proud of what I have done, mostly on my own but the familiy enjoy it and I said I would do it, I did despite what my friends said.

I don't think there will be anything more satisfying than the first time we raise the sails! Thanks for your input.

[fairview]

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

Quote: My frustration of not being able afford the size/type of cat we want.

The question you need to ask yourself are you going down this path because you want the experience of building your own cat or because you want to go sailing. A quick Google will yield Cloud 10's advertised currently at up to 130K. So if you could launch it today completed for less than 100K it may be worth a look at.

You must at the minimum have an estimated cost's for procurement of all equipment needed to get to splash the boat, including entire electrical system 12 & 240 volt, plumbing system, engines and drive-train , furniture, tanks (fuel,water,black water) Mast, boom and rigging standing and running, sails, deck hardware (including pushpitt, pullpit and lifelines), widows and hatches, dinghy and motor, anchor, chain, windlass, winches, clutches, steering gear, etc etc etc.

Plus estimated time it will it take to get the money to pay for the required equipment to do these jobs and the time you will actually take to complete the installation of them.

Then you will be in a reasonable position to say if you are embarking on building your current dream boat, in an acceptably timely and cost effective manner, or putting more time and money into somebody else's and soon to be yours also, failed dream.

Good luck which ever way you go.

Thanks Paul, while I would love to go sailing straight away I am a builder at heart and love the satisfaction from it.
I've done an extensive take off of what will be required and believe I can build it in budget. I'm fully committed to this, I've thrown my job and sold our house so will be working on her full time and treating as a job, a job that has a large reward when finished!

[fairview]

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

I agree with PaulinOz. You need to decide if you want to go sailing in the near future, or build a boat. If you can wait on the sailing, you're skilled in boat building, and it will be fun to do, go for it.

Thanks mate, agree

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by redhead

I can't say if it's a good buy or not, but....

IF you decide to go ahead I strongly urge you to keep the boat close to where you live. 15 years ago we bought a boat that needed "everything" and it was several hours travel from our home. Very bad idea. Life kept getting in the way and we had to stop the project.

Ideally, you should be able to get to the boat in a short drive if you have a spare hour after work, or run over to get a measurement from the boat if you're working something up in your garage.

Good luck if you go ahead!

Some of the best advice I have seen concerning taking on a project boat. To the OP I say go for it if you have the skills and drive.

[ghendoaus]

Here is a link to one for sale on the Gold Coast
Used Simpson Cloud 10 for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub

[catsketcher]

Personally, and let's understand that this is my opinion - I would say no.

Mostly it is because of the design. Roger Simpson could design some nice boats but I don't think this is one of them. I had a Cloud 10 near me for a few years and was very underwhelmed by the design. A few reasons why I would run a mile.

The design is 30 years old and was dated when drawn. The bridgedeck clearance is very low for a modern cat - in the eighties designers went through a period of trying to keep the profiles of the boat's low by putting low bridgedecks on cats. People now accept higher freeboard aesthetics and you will only go slower as you bang along the coast. Banging bridgedecks make you slow down and grimace.

Another dated part of the design is the low volume in the ends of the hulls. If you want this boat to have a big dinghy on it with a big targa bar you will sink the sterns. The sterns are low volume so will sink more quickly than a more modern design.

This also leads onto the next problem which is the low immersion rate. Basically hulls will sink more quickly than fatter hulls so you can't take as much gear. Even hulls with the same waterline beam but fuller ends will sink less.

The overall platform is narrow. This is great for travelifts but not so good for seaworthiness. You also lose room by going narrow.

Have a look at things like the stern steps - really hard to use. No one builds them like this anymore. Modern steps allow you to slip on your swim fins whilst on the bottom step. You would fall off on these ones.

Or you could look at the narrow side decks - Nowadays we don;t do narrow side decks on cats - the decks are huge so use them. Again this is a throwback to when we couldn't handle the high topsides of cats when compared to sleek monos. Monos are high too nowadays so you don't have to have this compromise. I can run forward on most cats. You have to gingerly step forward on this design.

I would not want this boat. You will install all this love and effort into a boat that will still be a dated 70s generation but 30 year old design and have lots of problems we know how to fix. An Easy is better, a Waller is better, almost any design done in the last 20 years is better. Most of Simpsons designs are far more modern. It is up to you, but remember that you will be putting modern materials and effort into a boat which has design compromises no one worries about any more. I would put modern materials and effort into a modern design. If this is going to be a long term thing you will not regret waiting for a better deal. I would want my build to feel brand new when I finish it - this boat will be dated from the start.

cheers

Phil



2-

[fairview]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Some of the best advice I have seen concerning taking on a project boat. To the OP I say go for it if you have the skills and drive.

Thanks mate, we will be relocating 5 minutes from the boat and working on her full time.

[fairview]

Originally Posted by ghendoaus

Here is a link to one for sale on the Gold Coast

Used Simpson Cloud 10 for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub

I have looked high and low and actually found this one on my travels. Thankyou though.

[fairview]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

Personally, and let's understand that this is my opinion - I would say no.



Mostly it is because of the design. Roger Simpson could design some nice boats but I don't think this is one of them. I had a Cloud 10 near me for a few years and was very underwhelmed by the design. A few reasons why I would run a mile.



The design is 30 years old and was dated when drawn. The bridgedeck clearance is very low for a modern cat - in the eighties designers went through a period of trying to keep the profiles of the boat's low by putting low bridgedecks on cats. People now accept higher freeboard aesthetics and you will only go slower as you bang along the coast. Banging bridgedecks make you slow down and grimace.



Another dated part of the design is the low volume in the ends of the hulls. If you want this boat to have a big dinghy on it with a big targa bar you will sink the sterns. The sterns are low volume so will sink more quickly than a more modern design.



This also leads onto the next problem which is the low immersion rate. Basically hulls will sink more quickly than fatter hulls so you can't take as much gear. Even hulls with the same waterline beam but fuller ends will sink less.



The overall platform is narrow. This is great for travelifts but not so good for seaworthiness. You also lose room by going narrow.



Have a look at things like the stern steps - really hard to use. No one builds them like this anymore. Modern steps allow you to slip on your swim fins whilst on the bottom step. You would fall off on these ones.



Or you could look at the narrow side decks - Nowadays we don;t do narrow side decks on cats - the decks are huge so use them. Again this is a throwback to when we couldn't handle the high topsides of cats when compared to sleek monos. Monos are high too nowadays so you don't have to have this compromise. I can run forward on most cats. You have to gingerly step forward on this design.



I would not want this boat. You will install all this love and effort into a boat that will still be a dated 70s generation but 30 year old design and have lots of problems we know how to fix. An Easy is better, a Waller is better, almost any design done in the last 20 years is better. Most of Simpsons designs are far more modern. It is up to you, but remember that you will be putting modern materials and effort into a boat which has design compromises no one worries about any more. I would put modern materials and effort into a modern design. If this is going to be a long term thing you will not regret waiting for a better deal. I would want my build to feel brand new when I finish it - this boat will be dated from the start.



cheers



Phil







2-

Hi Phil,
While I do agree on all you have said (I have done a lot of research so far) this is a build that will be finished to a standard and a budget. And while we see ourselves sailing the east coast of Oz on this, if we find it is not acceptable the benefits are that these cats fetch quite good money. Enabling us to move on to bigger and better vessel.
Thankyou for your input, very much appreciated.