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Old 10-02-2017, 02:24   #31
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

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Originally Posted by catsketcher View Post
Personally, and let's understand that this is my opinion - I would say no.

Mostly it is because of the design. Roger Simpson could design some nice boats but I don't think this is one of them.
Phil. to be fair I'm pretty sure, but I could be wrong, I'm drawing on my long term memory here , but Roger simpsons original design was the Cloud 9
and the larger Cloud 11.

Over time transom hung rudders were flicked, transom steps and second stories for standing headroom were added and a few FLOPS under different names were produced. All the time WEIGHT , not allowed for in the original design brief, was added

What features and performance do you really expect on a sub 30 foot full bridgedeck cruising cat? REALLY?(NO, adding transom extensions doesn't make it a BIGGER boat, only longer and heavier)


The price is a bargain for what you get if well built, if a very small bridgedeck catamaran is what you want.

Hopefully fairview understands what he's got and keeps the fitout minimalist and light with small engines ( 10 hp originally??) etc. The original boats as designed performed well, for all its design limitations.

To TAR a designer for what the builders and owners (butchers) did to a classic, small, design is unfair.

Good luck with the fitout fairview. If I were you I'd take an axe to the chicken coop and complete as originally designed with large opening entry hatch.

Can't see how you'll end up throwing less than $100,000 at it , but if done right it'll be a good pocket cruiser.
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:40   #32
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

There is not much to tell about the boat. I am a NZ trained boatbuilder and helped Brad right from waxing the mould to laying the last layers of glass on the foam . We built 2 boats and I think we used vinyl ester for the first couple of layers of glass then switched to poly. This happened over 7 years ago so my memory is pretty vague. We also got rid of the V underneath the bridgedeck. I would say the build quality was pretty good and my bill must have been at least half of what he is selling the cat to you for.
I agree with the other guys about a more modern design. If you are going to be doing the work full time, the hull really does not represent that much work. It's the fit out that takes the time. The Cloud is an outdated design (she looks very average in the water) and certainly there has been big improvements in multi hull design since they were first launched.
If you are not confident building the hulls of a newer design, employing a boatbuilder just for the hull stage would speed you along pretty quickly.

Cheers
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:28   #33
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

If that was in the U.S. I would buy it right now and move it to a place I could work on it with gusto and you will be surprised how many people want to help you with it. FYI I have been a partner building two 65 Ft. monohulls and we estimated a hull was only 7 to 9% of the vessel. I'm one that enjoys building as much as sailing.
Good Luck with her.
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Old 10-02-2017, 11:22   #34
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

They say that buidling a $20,000 car by buying new spare parts would cost over $250,000. I guess that's what you'll be doing. I get the shakes when I go to a chandleryl so expensive. There's something to be said for buying a ready made production boat. You can probably go sailing straight away.

I think it does take a special sort of person to build a boat. I would need it in my back yard and even then it would take a very long time. I always rate my jobs by the number of errors I made and I wouldn't want to be on the high seas on my 50 error boat.
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Old 10-02-2017, 15:54   #35
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

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They say that buidling a $20,000 car by buying new spare parts would cost over $250,000. I guess that's what you'll be doing. I get the shakes when I go to a chandleryl so expensive. There's something to be said for buying a ready made production boat. You can probably go sailing straight away.

I think it does take a special sort of person to build a boat. I would need it in my back yard and even then it would take a very long time. I always rate my jobs by the number of errors I made and I wouldn't want to be on the high seas on my 50 error boat.
You absolutely should not build a boat.
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Old 10-02-2017, 16:07   #36
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

The price is a bargain for what you get if well built, if a very small bridgedeck catamaran is what you want.

Hopefully fairview understands what he's got and keeps the fitout minimalist and light with small engines ( 10 hp originally??) etc. The original boats as designed performed well, for all its design limitations.

To TAR a designer for what the builders and owners (butchers) did to a classic, small, design is unfair.

Good luck with the fitout fairview. If I were you I'd take an axe to the chicken coop and complete as originally designed with large opening entry hatch.

Thanks mate, I do realise what I'm taking on and it's what we want and with research done she will do what we want.
Fitout will be minimalistic with all the basics running a single high thrust Yamaha 9.9. I actually was already considering opening the back up more already, great minds think alike haha.
I appreciate your input. Levi
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Old 10-02-2017, 16:12   #37
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
There is not much to tell about the boat. I am a NZ trained boatbuilder and helped Brad right from waxing the mould to laying the last layers of glass on the foam . We built 2 boats and I think we used vinyl ester for the first couple of layers of glass then switched to poly. This happened over 7 years ago so my memory is pretty vague. We also got rid of the V underneath the bridgedeck. I would say the build quality was pretty good and my bill must have been at least half of what he is selling the cat to you for.

I agree with the other guys about a more modern design. If you are going to be doing the work full time, the hull really does not represent that much work. It's the fit out that takes the time. The Cloud is an outdated design (she looks very average in the water) and certainly there has been big improvements in multi hull design since they were first launched.

If you are not confident building the hulls of a newer design, employing a boatbuilder just for the hull stage would speed you along pretty quickly.



Cheers


Thanks mate, I would love to go with a later design but I'm struggling to see how I could get out of it for this price. Once finished even if she is just a mere stepping stone to the next build/buy it will be a good learning curve and a good little earner.
I appreciate your input.
Thanks, Levi
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Old 10-02-2017, 16:14   #38
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

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Originally Posted by Rockyscience View Post
If that was in the U.S. I would buy it right now and move it to a place I could work on it with gusto and you will be surprised how many people want to help you with it. FYI I have been a partner building two 65 Ft. monohulls and we estimated a hull was only 7 to 9% of the vessel. I'm one that enjoys building as much as sailing.

Good Luck with her.

Rocky


Good attitude, thanks Rocky.

Levi
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Old 10-02-2017, 16:20   #39
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

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Originally Posted by dlymn View Post
They say that buidling a $20,000 car by buying new spare parts would cost over $250,000. I guess that's what you'll be doing. I get the shakes when I go to a chandleryl so expensive. There's something to be said for buying a ready made production boat. You can probably go sailing straight away.

I think it does take a special sort of person to build a boat. I would need it in my back yard and even then it would take a very long time. I always rate my jobs by the number of errors I made and I wouldn't want to be on the high seas on my 50 error boat.


Safe to say in my time of restoring cars building houses etc I've only made minor mistakes! Questions, questions, questions, I'm not afraid to ask, and after that I still do very thorough research to the best of my abilities. After that I find common sense and the 'builder within' has always stood me well.
Thankyou for your input, Levi
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Old 10-02-2017, 18:34   #40
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

Of course you have been following
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ft-103739.html

But here is one with all deck gear?
Used Crowther Catamaran for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub
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Old 10-02-2017, 20:13   #41
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

Quote :the benefits are that these cats fetch quite good money.

How many actual sales of this model do you know of in the past 12 months?

At what actual price if sold, did they sell for?

For Sale ads and listed price on the internet does not prove by any stretch of ones imagination "these cats fetch quiet good money."

As long as you are basing your statement on verified information, all will be good I guess.

Out of the current 250,000 Plus members on this Forum only 2 list as owning a Cloud 10 and have not been visited here for between 3 and 5 years.
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Old 10-02-2017, 22:29   #42
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

The one near me sold for about $60 -70 000 or maybe less. It was on the market for about 5 years. It did have some stuff a little wrong with it and failed one survey.
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Old 11-02-2017, 01:36   #43
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

Mr fairview, don't get too hung up on what the resale value will be. You are going in at the cheap end so will loose a lot less than someone building a 15 meter schionning.

I'm not sure one should ever look at boats as being a good investment. There is exceptions to every rule however.

You will end up with a boat with new gear, rig,motor, sails and modern instruments.
Only a clown would buy an old boat with old gear and load the family a-board and push off. So what may seem cheaper, won't be once you've updated stuff to a safe reliable standard for your family . I've had my current boat for approximately 18 years now and find I replace sails,motor(outboard), anchors,rigging etc at approximately 6-7 year intervals. Yes I know some people get much longer service, but I do a lot of full time live-aboard miles. How someone can get 20 years out of a plough anchor Is a mystery to me. Ive recently replaced my NZ manson plough after 7 years. Completely rusted out with the nose weight starting to fall off.

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Old 11-02-2017, 20:19   #44
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

Thanks for all your input guys, looks like it's going ahead. Will start a build thread when it eventuates.
Looking forward to all your knowledgable input in all areas.

Kind Regards, Levi
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Old 11-02-2017, 23:05   #45
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Re: Simpson Cloud 10-Is it worth it?

Looks to be good value. It's a small cat, so really work at keeping the fitout light.


You'll find some friendly, helpful advice here: https://diy-yachts.com/forum/
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