Selling a 110v Catamaran in Europe

[will_q]

Hello folks,

We have recently relocated to Portugal from North America and have are planning to sail a couple of seasons in the Med.

Our broker has found us what would seem to be a good deal on a US-spec'd 2018 Leopard 40 in Florida that we would, of course, have to bring across to the Med in the coming months. The boat has had a recent refit but does not more than the basic Leopard solar (2x70w, I believe).

The electrical system is 110v which, to my simple mind, could be a negative or financial handicap should we wish to sell the boat in the Med in a couple or few years. Our broker seems to say that this would not be a significant drawback to selling opportunities in the Med.

Has anyone had any experience selling a 110v boat in a 220v world and, if so, did you find that you had to discount your boat to compensate for having the 'wrong' electrical system for this part of the world?

We are just seeing what the options might be for resale down the road, one of which of course would be to bring the boat back to the US for sale.

Mant thanks for any advice, cheers

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by will_q

Hello folks,

We have recently relocated to Portugal from North America and have are planning to sail a couple of seasons in the Med.

Our broker has found us what would seem to be a good deal on a US-spec'd 2018 Leopard 40 in Florida that we would, of course, have to bring across to the Med in the coming months. The boat has had a recent refit but does not more than the basic Leopard solar (2x70w, I believe).

The electrical system is 110v which, to my simple mind, could be a negative or financial handicap should we wish to sell the boat in the Med in a couple or few years. Our broker seems to say that this would not be a significant drawback to selling opportunities in the Med.

Has anyone had any experience selling a 110v boat in a 220v world and, if so, did you find that you had to discount your boat to compensate for having the 'wrong' electrical system for this part of the world?

We are just seeing what the options might be for resale down the road, one of which of course would be to bring the boat back to the US for sale.

Mant thanks for any advice, cheers

no problem.
the 110V is also very easy to swap as 110V means larger AC cables sizes.
simply swap the 110V inverter out for a 220V model and replace the 110V sockets for 220V, job done..vice versa is a much bigger problem
if you have 110V Air Condition and 110V washing machine (check if it can run 220V/50hz) you may wanna stay 110V...

[more]

not problem 110v problem do you have CE certification to import in EU.in reality this is can be tricky.
check your “CE” mark for sale in European Union Declaration of Conformity with its technical documentation.

[barnab]

I would worry a lot more about paying VAT...


Keep in mind that with a 110V boat shore power won't be available to you. So even if you keep the boat at 110, you may want a battery charger that works off 220 shore power

[will_q]

Good news, this sounds positive - I will have to find the specs on the AirCon

[will_q]

Originally Posted by barnab

I would worry a lot more about paying VAT...


Keep in mind that with a 110V boat shore power won't be available to you. So even if you keep the boat at 110, you may want a battery charger that works off 220 shore power

Yes, VAT is definitely an issue and a pretty big one at that. There has to be a compelling price advantage to the US boat purchase in order to offset the VAT cost

[will_q]

Originally Posted by more

not problem 110v problem do you have CE certification to import in EU.in reality this is can be tricky.
check your “CE” mark for sale in European Union Declaration of Conformity with its technical documentation.

I had not thought of the CE certification, I imagine that this would be a deal-breaker for a EU purchaser (ie for insurance, etc)

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by more

not problem 110v problem do you have CE certification to import in EU.in reality this is can be tricky.
check your “CE” mark for sale in European Union Declaration of Conformity with its technical documentation.

Its a leopard, they have Ce certification, if 110 or 220V boat.

[CaptainRivet]

Also VAT is not a problem, request for VAT exception, leave VAT zone every 18 month for a day and request a new exception. You can store in eg turkey or other non Country when in med.

For the ones goin then back to Caribbean VAt is just what makes boat more expensive.
And leaving longer then 3 years VAT zone, the VAt payment expires and vessel is automatically exported and you have to pay VAT new on its current value. Welcome to screw up europe...


40ft cat and quality mass production like Leopards are questioned and sale prices take VAT into account if with or not.
if its the right boat with the right specs for you just get it, it will always sell. Worst case you sail it back to caribean...its easy the right way...get it from carribean to portugal will be the hard one...

[Tin Tin]

You can install a 220v -110V isolation transformer. It will transform the volts but not the Hz. The only issue will be electronics that use shore power to operate so you need to see that what you currently have installed is 50 - 60Hz compatible. Most modern aircon accepts either as do battery chargers. Some devices with electronic timers may be an issue such as clothes washers, microwaves etc. Micro waves are cheap just buy one that works, alternatively run it through your inverter as that will be 60 HZ. See https://shop.pkys.com/Isolation-Tran...able_b_37.html


IF you come to sell it in EU you might find they want to take it back across the Atlantic and will appreciate a US wired boat.

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by will_q

Good news, this sounds positive - I will have to find the specs on the AirCon

Although I live in a 220v zone, I had my boat built as 110v as it would be spending a lot of time in 110v areas. I spoke to the aircon manufacturer, Dometic, and they said it was ok to use a 220 > 110v transformer and run at 50Hz. They recommended running the fans at high speed (don't know why). As others have said, it is also easier to swap a 110 boat over to 220 than the other way round as the cables are sized for the higher current in 110 systems.

I later had shore power connections added for European sockets at very little (in boat terms) cost.

[barnab]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Also VAT is not a problem, request for VAT exception, leave VAT zone every 18 month for a day and request a new exception. You can store in eg turkey or other non Country when in med.

Sorry, that won't work. The OP relocated to Portugal, he is a resident of the EU Customs Zone. The moment his boat enters the EU Custom Zone he must pay VAT.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by barnab

Sorry, that won't work. The OP relocated to Portugal, he is a resident of the EU Customs Zone. The moment his boat enters the EU Custom Zone he must pay VAT.

Correct. As a EU resident he can not be onboard a non-VAT boat that he has any stake in (doesn't matter if privately owned or through some foreing company constructs like Delaware companies).

VAT is IMO not really an issue. It just has to be reflected in the asking price when selling in EU waters. VAT is mostly >20% in EU countries. However difference between boats with VAT paid and unpaid is more like 15-20% as some people just don't need VAT status (non EU residents sailing away).



CE certfication OTOH is an issue. Many EU buyers need a CE certificate to register the boat in their home country.
Even though most mass produced cats carry the CE mark the specific CE certificate is a paper unique for each boat that includes the HIN. Lagoon & FP can reproduce CE certificates but ask the manufacturer for each boat in question.

[more]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Its a leopard, they have Ce certification, if 110 or 220V boat.

i can imagine coming in custom to import boat in EU, and you tell custom officer .Its a leopard, they have Ce certification,and custom officer die for hard laughs.
who cares what leopard have, he must have valid COC document for this boat.
evry bolt,cable must have if custom officer ask CE certificate.

last month i buy mercedes made in germany,first register in germany and registration in Croatia ask COC,normaly i don't have i must order in mercedes copy ,pay and wait 10 days.
all some for boat new or used after year 2000. custom,invoice soc. after this go to inspection check is this coc fake or real.
somebody change seacocks, install t-fuse COC need

but also with CE certification leopard is
BROBC012 LEOPARD 45 Robertson & Caine (Pty) Ltd
BROBC013 LEOPARD 50 Robertson & Caine (Pty) Ltd
BROBC014 LEOPARD 53 POWERCAT Robertson & Caine (Pty) Ltd
BROBC015 LEOPARD 42 Robertson & Caine (Pty) Ltd
BROBC016 LEOPARD 46PC Robertson & Caine (Pty) Ltd
BROBC017 LEOPARD 40 POWERCAT Robertson & Caine (Pty) Ltd
Pain in ass is buying from 1 EU state to another because you must wait deleting document.

[SV Coronado]

I bought a new 110V boat in Europe and sailed it back to North America. Keep in mind that a future buyer of your boat may want to do the same.

On a separate subject, you'll probably want an isolation transformer installed to convert the 220 shore power to 110. The transformer will step down the voltage but not change the frequency.

We have a transformer installed with an individual, EU-style shore power inlet (32A) alongside our US shore power inlet (50A). The way our boat is set up, the EU shore power is only connected to the air conditioning and battery chargers. It is not connected to the house leg. All the AC-powered devices on our boat are inverted (e.g., water heater, washing machine, etc.) except our air con, which is why it needs shore power. When in a 220 marina, we simply run off batteries and use shore power to charge the battery bank. We are set up this way so we don't have to worry about frequency differences since our inverter handles it for us.

Feel free to DM if you want more details.