Helia 44 abandoned off Puerto Rico

[Matt Johnson]

Even better New IntegrAL and SurvivAL escape hatches – GOIOT-SYSTEMS




I really don't understand how the solid glass non-opening hatches have fallen out in some of the newer cats. Compared to these opening hatches, if you look at the size of the frit on the new Lagoons, the bonding area is huge and should never have a problem, but they still are falling out. Crazy


Matt

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

I'm guessing cost is an issue.

LONG ago, was told by a mechanic that the fwd window on our 747 cost $250K.

Of course all the tech involved in having heated curved panes with no distortion adds a lot. But I get your point. I like the idea of secured double paned hatches.

Some builders have the hatch in the bridgedeck and (I believe) some have no hatch at all.

Goiot now offers an all aluminum hatch, but I think the issue is less about the material of the hatch than the actual engineering of how the pieces go together. Using silicone to adhere acrylic to aluminum is just dumb, silicone doesn’t really adhere to acrylic. The Rutgerson Escape Hatch is acrylic but it has a much better engineered system for holding the acrylic in the frame.

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Even better New IntegrAL and SurvivAL escape hatches – GOIOT-SYSTEMS



Attachment 205039





I really don't understand how the solid glass non-opening hatches have fallen out in some of the newer cats. Compared to these opening hatches, if you look at the size of the frit on the new Lagoons, the bonding area is huge and should never have a problem, but they still are falling out. Crazy





Matt

I agree it seems like they should be pretty robust. The glue they use is the same as bonding windshields in cars. Perhaps the bond breaks down at the gelcoat?

If the panel can come off, the recall fix seems pretty weak, I would not want that little piece of aluminum be all that stands in the way of the panel disappearing into the ocean.

I’m not a fan of the official fix for the Goiot hinged hatch either. It is a strip glued onto acrylic to keep the lens in, but it relies on glue not an acrylic to acrylic weld and it doesn’t offer any positive retention force. Better than nothing but not as good as it could be.

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

...the issue is less about the material of the hatch than the actual engineering of how the pieces go together.

Ditto!

[double u]

Originally Posted by tomfl

a story my Dad told me about his experience. He was a Chief Petty Officer on a destroyer in WWII that was hit by a torpedo. I have little doubt that made a whole much larger than an escape hatch on any cat. He and several other men too two mattresses from bunks and put them over the hole; from the inside. While it did not completely stop the water coming in the boat it did slow it down enough that a more complete repair was able to reduce the amount coming in to a very manageable amount...

Looking at WW2 footage of torpedo hits on YT I can only say: BS!!!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by double u

Looking at WW2 footage of torpedo hits on YT I can only say: BS!!!

No, that kind of thing was not all that uncommon, it’s a misconception people have that torpedos “hit” the ship, many were designed to go under the ship and explode, that would break its back.
Then many torpedos simply missed, but had magnetic exploders so as the magnetic field began to weaken as it was going away from the ship it would detonate.
I believe unless I’m mistaken that many US magnetic detonators were defective and caused duds.

The US Mark 14 torpedo was an absolute mess, due to funding constraints there was never a test fired of a live torpedo before WWII and as you can expect the torpedo had horrendous problems.

Point being is that weapons systems very often malfunction so to say what did or didn’t happen is impossible.

[double u]

https://static.warthunder.com/upload...orpedo_hit.JPG
--hole plugged by mattresses...

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by double u

https://static.warthunder.com/upload...orpedo_hit.JPG
--hole plugged by mattresses...

See https://maritime.org/doc/dc/part8.htm
page 255

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

See https://maritime.org/doc/dc/part8.htm
page 255

Interesting read. I had found that on google books, but thanks for the original. At the end of 255, this outlines an effort to seal a 8x10” hole with blankets wrapped to make a cone which is passed through the hole from the outside. Pretty clever idea. Could potentially work for escape hatch failure but the hole is 4x the area.

“A most effective plug was made by a ship after an enemy shell had torn an 8-inch x 10-inch hole in the side at the waterline. Unable to make repairs from inside because of wreckage, the ship made a built-up conical plug of cloth. The core was a piece of heavy line three feet long. An eye was spliced into each end of this core line, which was then wrapped with strips of blanket until a cone was built up, two inches in diameter at one end and two feet in diameter at the other end. The layers of cloth were held together and to the core line by stitching and serving. Lines were secured to the eyes in the core line, and by means of these lines the plug was lowered over the side and pulled into place as shown in figure 34-8. Such a plug has flexibility; it will become adapted to irregular shapes. Furthermore, it will absorb water and swell, which tends to make it more effective.”

The article does refer frequently to using mattresses but typically as gaskets with tables or some other rigid plate providing the retaining force.

All of these things are interesting but the reality is that before you could ever deploy them, the interior spaces would be flooded and you would be sitting on the top deck with your epirb turned on like this guy. He told he had just minutes before the hull was flooded.

Better solution is to fix the hatch before you go sailing.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by gonesail

but i thought catamarans didn't sink

It didn't. See the photo? It's really not complicated. There's a floating boat in the photo. If the boat had sunk, there wouldn't be a photo of a floating boat. Because it would be under the water.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

It didn't. See the photo? It's really not complicated. There's a floating boat in the photo. If the boat had sunk, there wouldn't be a photo of a floating boat. Because it would be under the water.

Lol exactly.

44cc- you may have missed my question earlier in thread, or I missed your answer.
Do you have escape hatches? If so, what are they? I bet they’re better than the cheap production cat ones ...

[44'cruisingcat]

No, no escape hatches. If our boat capsized, the bridgedeck would be at least 30cm above the water, possibly double that, so I feel that would be a viable escape route.

If I was going to fit an escape hatch, I'd do it the way Lightwave does and have it in the bridgedeck floor.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by double u

...so much for the unsinkability...
looking around here I wonder about the progress multihull design has made since my starting days in the early 80ies...

Be careful not to extrapolate one design or one manufacturer or one category of boat to all in the class.

[RaymondR]

I have noticed these things on cats and am of the opinion that they are a disaster waiting to happen.

Why have any of them open inward?

Why have acrylic in them?

Why have them quick opening?

It appears to be a problem which would be far better and lest costly solved with a piece of alloy plate, four bolts with wing nuts and a resilient gasket.

They are to be used if the vessel is upside down. It appears that sufficient buoyancy could be built into the aft end to ensure the engines weight was compensated for to allow the inverted vessel to float on an evenish keel (there's usually a dirty great box beam back there anyway) and if the vessel was not at risk of rapid sinking the few moments required to spin off four wing nuts and kick the plate out would not substantially increase the risk of being trapped in a sinking vessel.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

No, no escape hatches. If our boat capsized, the bridgedeck would be at least 30cm above the water, possibly double that, so I feel that would be a viable escape route.

If I was going to fit an escape hatch, I'd do it the way Lightwave does and have it in the bridgedeck floor.

Handy location for fishing too, could land them straight into the galley!