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Donkey · 01-02-2021, 20:23

From the link for Monte Provided -

Our first chance to sail upwind came at the Canary islands. We were initially disappointed in the performance with 120 degree tacks, but on closer inspection realised we were heading into a 2kn current which drastically effects upwind ability. Boatspeeds upwind are close to half TWS, up until about 8kn speed through water. After that its better to pinch a bit or reef as the apparent wind will be over 25kn. We've since had some nice upwind sails and tacking through 90 degrees is quite doable while maintaining good boatspeed, say 7kn in 16kn TW, giving an upwind velocity made good of around 5kn. Unfortunately sailing upwind in the Caribbean usually means sailing into a 1-2kn current so tacks tend to be closer to 120 degrees in those conditions and VMG drops to 3.5kn.
This seems pretty much par for the course for most yachts we have sailed nearby, with some pointing slightly higher, some slightly faster, some slower and some pointing lower. In general we are very happy with the L400 on all points of sail.

and on the L400 Performance thread -

On our 380 we would set the autopilot in wind vane mode, around 35 degress, and make actual COG of 45 degrees at good speed (approx 7K in 20K breeze), so I was happy with 90 degree tacks.
Yesterday we couldnt do much better than 120 degree tacks and speed ranged from 5-6K in the 15-20K true wind, so basically slower and at least 15 degrees lower pointing.
That said I think there may have been 1K of current against us which would equate to about 10 degree lower tacks. The log consistantly read up to a knot more than the GPS so perhaps speed through water was 6-7K.
As the wind freshened to 20-25K at the top of the island, angles and speed improved and we adjusted the course down to 35 degrees and were making 6-7K and closer to 50 degrees over the ground. Once off the wind speeds were over 8K across the top of the island.
I had hoped for a much better outcome, but at this stage Im not counting out the possible current which would explain the very low angles.

Tupaia · 02-02-2021, 10:32

arsenelupiga thank you for the incite into the amazing performance of your L400 Lagoon. I hope to see many of them entering races in the future.

FlyingScot · 02-02-2021, 12:03

I have limited sailing on a L400. 2012 model. Mostly neglected, newly purchased, helping the new owner learn how to sail it. Boat mostly empty, but 9 people on board. Without really stressing the boat it was hard to get it to go upwind at all.

I'd love to hear more about these L400's that sail like a banshee upwind. What type of sails, rigging, props, tension, etc.

I'm trying to get my 1st Generation Leopard 40 to sail properly upwind so any advice is helpful.

arsenelupiga · 02-02-2021, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I have limited sailing on a L400. 2012 model. Mostly neglected, newly purchased, helping the new owner learn how to sail it. Boat mostly empty, but 9 people on board. Without really stressing the boat it was hard to get it to go upwind at all.

I'd love to hear more about these L400's that sail like a banshee upwind. What type of sails, rigging, props, tension, etc.

I'm trying to get my 1st Generation Leopard 40 to sail properly upwind so any advice is helpful.

LIGHT boat, say loaded up to 50 % of max luggage weight, boat hulls balanced, clean, folding props and good sails. And boat that tacks effortlessly - that proves upwind potential. We never had to repeat tack.

On top of that you need to practice a lot. It took me couple years to figure it out. I was total beginner when started, though and not that interested in upwind.

smj · 02-02-2021, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

LIGHT boat, say loaded up to 50 % of max luggage weight, boat hulls balanced, clean, folding props and good sails. And boat that tacks effortlessly - that proves upwind potential. We never had to repeat tack.

On top of that you need to practice a lot. It took me couple years to figure it out. I was total beginner when started, though and not that interested in upwind.

The Lagoon 400 is a very heavy cat with nothing added.

arsenelupiga · 02-02-2021, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj

The Lagoon 400 is a very heavy cat with nothing added.

this is true. however that is not always bad thing. And light wind performance seem to be rather excellent.

I found this 12 y old L 400 review spot on and where I get ideas for improvements from.

FlyingScot · 02-02-2021, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

this is true. however that is not always bad thing. And light wind performance seem to be rather excellent.

I found this 12 y old L 400 review spot on and where I get ideas for improvements from.

Only idea I saw is they recommend the square top main.
I also didn't see any wind angles mentioned below 50 and 55 degrees true.

They specifically mentioned not to expect exceptional performance, but some here are getting what I would call exceptional performance from their L400's.

arsenelupiga · 02-02-2021, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Only idea I saw is they recommend the square top main.
I also didn't see any wind angles mentioned below 50 and 55 degrees true.

They specifically mentioned not to expect exceptional performance, but some here are getting what I would call exceptional performance from their L400's.

thanks, we are impressed too, we have boat now close to 7 years and I know it better than author that sailed it for 3 days. Not saying upwind 41 TRUE is optimal upwind angle, just that it is useful.

Joli · 02-02-2021, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Yes, we had a great smoothe passage between Dec. 17th and Jan. 12th, sailed across directly from Las Palmas to St. Martin (F) staying as far north as possible below the duldrums for steady but not to strong trades. We had a friend from the US as crew, he was new to sailing and we don't wanted to scare him too much on the passage.

Actually we've been surfing the Corona wave for an year now quite successfully... Not one test yet and we hope to keep it that way as long as possible.

We sailed around Sicily as they allowed regional traffic after the lockdown up to the Lipari islands, then inter-region was allowed and we sailed to Sardinia. Balearics opened up... that opened the path to Mallorca, then Germany issued a travel warning there and all tourists disappeared, we had a great season there, been to Formentera for a couple of weeks, crossed to the mainland Spain right before they started over with restrictions. We hauled out for 10 days in
Cartagena and sailed to Almerimar for some time, where I fitted the 2nd autopilot, then to La Linea / Gib for two weeks to get my Iridium and wait for a nice weather window.

The Canaries are spanish and travel was unrestricted within Spain, so we made it to La Graciosa, stayed there to relax after the first ocean leg. Lanzarote, Fuerteventura and finally Gran Canaria / Las Palmas right before the ARC. Spain issued PCR test before arrival on the islands, be we've been there already. We stayed there longer than expected, when checking the rigg, our main winch loosed some teeth on the drum and we waited almost 14 days for parts. Weather was OK, we mailed with the authorities on the Caribbean islands for clear in procedures and checked Noonsite, most wanted pre-departure PCR and Quarantine, PCR on arrival, Martinique and Guadeloupe wanted a good reason on top (curfew) but Saint Martin was relaxed, EU flagged were allowed, passage time was accounted as 14 days quarantine if the skipper attests no symptoms prior and during the passage and provides the zarpe copy (checkout) from an EU port with no stop overs elsewhere. So we were allowed on land. Moving on the island between the french and dutch side on land or by dinghy is unrestricted, with the yacht you have to clear out and clear in with all C19 procedures. Marigot bay is a nice anchorage so we enjoy it a lot.

We think about DomRep as the next destination, they don't require testing either, Mexico could be a good candidate too. But we'll see how it develops, maybe a travel bubble 2.0...

There's a catamaran race around St Martin this weekend. Talk to Renee at island water world if you're interested.

CatNewBee · 02-02-2021, 17:42

.....

wingssail · 02-02-2021, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Yes, I know. We are not racers and I have other plans for the weekend (PADI OWD certification).
*
We would be too heavy to have a chance in the race any way.

Yes, there are a million reasons people give why they don't race their boats:

"We are not racers"
"We don't race our house"
"We'd be too heavy"
"We have other plans"
"I have to wash my hair"

But then they tell us how they have tacking angles and speed which would embarass any racer.

Why do I begine to doubt that?

I'ts a bit tedious, actually.

I have 40year old MONOHULL. It's my home (My only home). It's heavy, it has almost everything I own on it, certainly all the livaboard stuff, tools, spares, etc.

I know the racing schedule and I arrange things so I can do the races.

When the cats do come out (rarely) we wipe them.

Just show us what you've got, and stop making excuses.

TabbyCat · 02-02-2021, 19:47

Our MC41 loves to sail 41 degrees apparent, that's the "groove" but if we push it we can pinch to 35 in some conditions. But that's slow!

smj · 02-02-2021, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingssail

Yes, there are a million reasons people give why they don't race their boats:

"We are not racers"

"We don't race our house"

"We'd be too heavy"

"We have other plans"

"I have to wash my hair"

But then they tell us how they have tacking angles and speed which would embarass any racer.

Why do I begine to doubt that?

I'ts a bit tedious, actually.

I have 40year old MONOHULL. It's my home (My only home). It's heavy, it has almost everything I own on it, certainly all the livaboard stuff, tools, spares, etc.

I know the racing schedule and I arrange things so I can do the races.

When the cats do come out (rarely) we wipe them.

Just show us what you've got, and stop making excuses.

That’s funny. I just read your 2019 blog about the Banderas Bay race and you finished behind 2 catamarans. Guess you didn’t wipe them out that year? I guess they showed you what they had and made no excuses?