2012 Round The Island Race (& Gemini capsize)

[Eleven]

Floatation is an owners option. I save all the plastic bottles that come into the house and stuff them (capped) into all the cavities and spaces on my boat. Not fixed, just in case of a penetrating wound to the hull, but there are enough on board now to slow the rate of sinking, hopefully. The lead (iron keel) on the bottom is a quarantee it will sink unless I fit several car air bags to it. I also hope to see several/many bottles floating around the swimming me as the boat slips gracefully? beneath the waves.
Those milk bottles make great food storage by the way.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Eleven

From that other Forum (where there seems to be a total lack of Moderation).

Lol! - but nonetheless I am on my 3rd lifetime ban from there .

[foolishsailor]

I just got off the ferry from the UK this morning after participating in the Quarter Tonner Cup and Round Island Race...

The winds were strong, althought not strong for the area, at around 25 and gusting to over 30.

In our class alone 3 boats lost their masts and 1 lost their rudder. There was a serious ebb tide flowing against the wind on the first upwind leg to the Needles. We snapped a halyard on our jib and had two blocks at the base of the mast blow for our vang and starboard jib sheet and had to retire just before the Needles.

What caught out alot of boats on the backside was the 3-4meter swell rolling in. There were many crash jibes and damaged rigging, especially after St. Catherines when the wind angle was very deep.

The main culprit was uppers parting and the mast dropping at the spreaders. Out fleet is light and fast and if not handled in these conditions properly, easily damaged.

Here is a pic of "Catch Me" from our fleet, one of the three that lost masts...


What a great race - nothing like tacking up a channel with 1,600 other boats...

...and then having to retire and go through all of them again downwind

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by conachair

http://www.cowesonline.com/d/Round%2...Race%20Lge.mov

Let the armchair experts convene

ouch - looks like the wind got under it once it was up high enough...

[webejammin]

We have a Gemini 105Mc and we have all our extra space filled with caped water bottles about 800 of them in areas in each hull aft of the water tanks if we hit something it may help. Too bad someone sank a nice crusing cat in a race just for kiks. Open ocean sailing in big waves in a Gemini I'm told not to use our centerboards mre than 1/3 down and let it slide off the waves is the safe way, but I guess not for racing

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by webejammin

We have a Gemini 105Mc and we have all our extra space filled with caped water bottles about 800 of them in areas in each hull aft of the water tanks if we hit something it may help. Too bad someone sank a nice crusing cat in a race just for kiks. Open ocean sailing in big waves in a Gemini I'm told not to use our centerboards mre than 1/3 down and let it slide off the waves is the safe way, but I guess not for racing

I always wondered about the water bottle idea. on one hand, 800 water bottles at usual 16 ounce (0.5L) would be 400 liters, or 880 lbs of buoyancy.
I guess that would make a difference, although still less that 10% of a gemini's displacement, and take up a bunch of storage space where I would prefer things like extra anchor rode, clothing, safety gear, etc....

[webejammin]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I always wondered about the water bottle idea. on one hand, 800 water bottles at usual 16 ounce (0.5L) would be 400 liters, or 880 lbs of buoyancy.
I guess that would make a difference, although still less that 10% of a gemini's displacement, and take up a bunch of storage space where I would prefer things like extra anchor rode, clothing, safety gear, etc....

The location for storing the extra flotation of the empty 16oz water bottles is thru a 8 inch round hatch that is normally empty in case the rudders need repairs. On a catamaran which you don't have malbert, we have lots more storage in outside lazeretts than is ever needed not like a monohull at all.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by webejammin

The location for storing the extra flotation of the empty 16oz water bottles is thru a 8 inch round hatch that is normally empty in case the rudders need repairs. On a catamaran which you don't have malbert, we have lots more storage in outside lazeretts than is ever needed not like a monohull at all.

Wow.
I simply was wondering what people's thoughts were on this topic, not at all mono/multi. Defensive at all?


Incidentally, my mono has lazarattes you could live in, so your reply was unfounded.

And thank you for telling me I have a monohull. I was wondering why my bridgedeck doesnt slam.

[malbert73]

Now, does anyone have any real world experience with the water bottle flotation system? An intriguing idea for unballasted craft....

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by webejammin

The location for storing the extra flotation of the empty 16oz water bottles is thru a 8 inch round hatch that is normally empty in case the rudders need repairs. On a catamaran which you don't have malbert, we have lots more storage in outside lazeretts than is ever needed not like a monohull at all.

No crusing boat has more storage "than is ever needed". Some boats are limited by weight rather than volume, but all crusing boats would rather be able to carry more fuel, water, tools food spares etc
You can make do with very small amounts and still have a great time, but more storage is easier more luxurious and cheaper. My first crusing boat carried 34 l (9gal) of fuel my current one 1000l (270 gal). You don't have to be able to carry this much, but it makes life easier and enables options that would not be possible otherwise. The same is true of other storage.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I always wondered about the water bottle idea. on one hand, 800 water bottles at usual 16 ounce (0.5L) would be 400 liters, or 880 lbs of buoyancy.
I guess that would make a difference, although still less that 10% of a gemini's displacement, and take up a bunch of storage space where I would prefer things like extra anchor rode, clothing, safety gear, etc....

I think it is as much about displacement of the water as the bouyancy provided - the less space for water inside the less problem it is, both in weight and sloshing around (a ton or 2 of water in a confind space will do a lot of damage when it is moving (at least it would do on a mono - the physics maybe different on other hull configurations).

[Eleven]

For those elsewhere, St Catherines Point is the southerly point of the long diamond of the Isle of White. Trade wind is along the coast line after running well clear of the rock WNW.
I've never dared run South of the Island, the only harbour is only safe if you're already in it, and it's a long run just to get around the corner and into lightly sheltered shallows.
The number of masts is no surprise, it was gusty on shore, out there, in a swell that had run in from the atlantic, unchecked until it reached the Isle, some sharp helming was going to be required. Fortunately no lives were lost, though many may well have thought it was their turn. Sea was cold and rough. Plenty of boats but not easy weather to recover swimmers, and too cold (July in the UK, so they tell me) to stay in the water for long.

[Therapy]

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Well, that didn't work..............


http://www.rnlivideolibrary.org.uk/g...x?vid=PWFtPMtk

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Now, does anyone have any real world experience with the water bottle flotation system? An intriguing idea for unballasted craft....

There has been a lot of discussion on the Gem owners site regarding this. Those that have done the math say that filling the voids with bottles will not be enough to support the boat and keep it from sinking. Bottles filling the spaces leave too much space around them. Then there is the argument that they are porous (relatively) and the repeated expansion and contraction through days > seasons will actually contract them some.

Some have taken the trouble to fill the "water tight" compartments with USCG approved foam. Their math says they are now unsinkable. Down side is if the boat is ever searched severely it will be completely destroyed by the end.

Some have cut and fitted Styrofoam "battens" of a high quality (don't remember source) that completely fill the compartments and other voids stating that their math is good too.

No one that has done any of these has ever had the pleasure of testing it live.

There have only been 3 or 4 Gems that have capsized while sailing in their entire history. Two of those were charterers. This one is either 3 or 4 - can't remember for sure. One sank at a dock and they never figured out why. One was flipped while at anchor in a hurricane. That is about it.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Therapy

There has been a lot of discussion on the Gem owners site regarding this. Those that have done the math say that filling the voids with bottles will not be enough to support the boat and keep it from sinking. Bottles filling the spaces leave too much space around them. Then there is the argument that they are porous (relatively) and the repeated expansion and contraction through days > seasons will actually contract them some.

Some have taken the trouble to fill the "water tight" compartments with USCG approved foam. Their math says they are now unsinkable. Down side is if the boat is ever searched severely it will be completely destroyed by the end.

Some have cut and fitted Styrofoam "battens" of a high quality (don't remember source) that completely fill the compartments and other voids stating that their math is good too.

No one that has done any of these has ever had the pleasure of testing it live.

There have only been 3 or 4 Gems that have capsized while sailing in their entire history. Two of those were charterers. This one is either 3 or 4 - can't remember for sure. One sank at a dock and they never figured out why. One was flipped while at anchor in a hurricane. That is about it.

I can think of 6 Geminis that have flipped of hand. The locations were SF Bay, Seattle, Mississippi, Naples Fl, Jacksonville Fl. and now the one in England.