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Icarus · 23-11-2020, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxykty

I’m not sure why you think this event is so special that it will affect all performance cruising catamarans?

They hit something (possibly) in reasonable conditions and capsized. What’s there to learn?

Certainly the loss of life is significant, and provides a reason for wearing a PFD and/or harness and tether in easy conditions.

I guess one does not find too many upside down floating monos unless they lose the ballast keel.
So the multihull community who generally haven't much clue about stability vectors trying to understand The why?
Sad all the same.

**newhaul** · 23-11-2020, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yihang

Full main and self tacking job is pretty common. That's what fxykty was referring to I'm sure.

If i am using a self racking anything it wiuld be a cutter stay sail that i have added to the masthead sloop rig to get that bit of extra.

XL2 · 23-11-2020, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph

Actually, not true. Having raced on 40' stripped out racing Cats with real pros, they have very strict rules on when to reef. In one instance, we were offshore, the true wind hit 18 knots and the skipper called for a reef in the main. I was surprised, however we did it and gained an extra 1-2 knots...

Absolutely true and same for all serious mono race boats... these days race boats sail with "Crossover" charts that are worked out over time and real numbers.... if a wind strength exceeds what the chart says for more than an agreed time, the change is made, day or night.
My mainsail is reefed at 18knots. it is not fast dragging around unused sail cloth...

fxykty · 23-11-2020, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulBartomioli

with all the technology available "bad luck" is a stretch. The crew on both boats is vastly different. I can walk any marina and get a ride on any boat needing crew. I would never be accepted for the crew on an ocean racer. My skill level would not stop it, my age would. Regarding the "choice" of a cruiser to risk their home and family is a pretty poor decision on any level. There are old sailors, there are bold sailors, there are no old bold sailors.

If you head off on a passage of 1-4 weeks duration, at best your departure plan and forecast will be accurate for 3-5 days, possibly a week in particularly settled conditions. But a low pressure system can develop or move in quickly. Then what? Your forecast technology will not help you avoid, just mitigate at that point.

You can minimise but not eliminate bad weather. So both you (and the rest of the crew) and your boat should be prepared and capable of dealing with challenging conditions. This is the same for both cruisers and racers. Offshore. Coastal cruising is different if you don’t have a schedule, while races will start to a schedule unless the conditions or forecast is really bad.

Old sailors, bold sailors, and old and bold sailors certainly all do exist. What do you call the Pardeys, the Hiscocks, J Slocum, the Dashews, S Novak, J L Cam, etc, etc, etc?

Seaslug Caravan · 24-11-2020, 02:17

Last speed on Marinetraffic:*Speed/Course:*9.5 kn / 239 °

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...ssel:HALLUCINE

To put it in perspective, Hallucine averaged 9.6 knots and were first to finsish in the ARC.

Its a fine line between pleaure and pain.

Tupaia · 24-11-2020, 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

Last speed on Marinetraffic:*Speed/Course:*9.5 kn / 239 °

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...ssel:HALLUCINE

To put it in perspective, Hallucine averaged 9.6 knots and were first to finsish in the ARC.

Its a fine line between pleaure and pain.

This position is for the 6th Nov. The Capsize occurred on 13th Nov. in order to see the speed, course at the time of the incident you need a Professional Subscription to MarineTraffic to see historical data.

I asked if anyone had such a subscription. Post #10

You also have to view the general MT data with caution as on the same link it states Max speed as 6.4 and Avg speed as 6

A speed of 9.5 knots is not high for a cat.

Historical weather for Pontevedra and La Coruna were very benign.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/es/redondela/LEVX/date/2020-11-13
https://www.wunderground.com/history...ate/2020-11-13

smj · 24-11-2020, 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

Last speed on Marinetraffic:*Speed/Course:*9.5 kn / 239 °

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...ssel:HALLUCINE

To put it in perspective, Hallucine averaged 9.6 knots and were first to finsish in the ARC.

Its a fine line between pleaure and pain.

Says they averaged 12.5 knots in the ARC. Either way a good video.

https://youtu.be/hz5qw9lZP1g

Seaslug Caravan · 24-11-2020, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj

Says they averaged 12.5 knots in the ARC. Either way a good video.

https://youtu.be/hz5qw9lZP1g

Love the FACTS presented by promotional videos.

2700 miles RACE, 11 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes and 47 seconds

That should give the thread legs.

smj · 24-11-2020, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

Love the FACTS presented by promotional videos.

2700 miles RACE, 11 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes and 47 seconds

That should give the thread legs.

Yeah Sluggers, 2700 miles on the rumb line, and I’m sure all the boats in the ARC sailed exactly on the rumb line. Could that possibly be an average of 12.5 kts sailed on their actual mileage?

Factor · 25-11-2020, 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by newhaul

But does anyone actually ever sail with 100% caculated sail area?

Myself i usually when no reefs are necessary am running full main and at least a 120% jib

It aint a jib if its 120%

PaulBartomioli · 25-11-2020, 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxykty

If you head off on a passage of 1-4 weeks duration, at best your departure plan and forecast will be accurate for 3-5 days, possibly a week in particularly settled conditions. But a low pressure system can develop or move in quickly. Then what? Your forecast technology will not help you avoid, just mitigate at that point.

You can minimise but not eliminate bad weather. So both you (and the rest of the crew) and your boat should be prepared and capable of dealing with challenging conditions. This is the same for both cruisers and racers. Offshore. Coastal cruising is different if you don’t have a schedule, while races will start to a schedule unless the conditions or forecast is really bad.

Old sailors, bold sailors, and old and bold sailors certainly all do exist. What do you call the Pardeys, the Hiscocks, J Slocum, the Dashews, S Novak, J L Cam, etc, etc, etc?

True, lows can move in quickly. Again, with the technology, being caught flat-footed is due to negligence perhaps. It is annoying, but a marine weather channel for your sailing area running in the background is not unheard of. To answer your last question, very lucky, as they will attest. Karma is a bitch, and her name is Mother Nature.

Joli · 25-11-2020, 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj

Yeah Sluggers, 2700 miles on the rumb line, and I’m sure all the boats in the ARC sailed exactly on the rumb line. Could that possibly be an average of 12.5 kts sailed on their actual mileage?

Typically sailing speeds are qualified as port to port, distance sailed is irrelevant.

**newhaul** · 25-11-2020, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

It aint a jib if its 120%

If you say so. If its not a jib sail then what is it ?
I am waiting with baited breath.

smj · 25-11-2020, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

Typically sailing speeds are qualified as port to port, distance sailed is irrelevant.

Maybe irrelevant to you, but not to the ones that averaged 12.5 kts for 11.5 days straight. Have you ever averaged that? I think it’s pretty spectacular for a cruising cat, and they were first to finish.