Yet another "First Sailboat" Thread... which boat should I chose?

[FlorianNY]

Good day list mates!
Here is another "I want to buy my first sailboat" thread... I appreciate your combined patience and, as always, your input

I am in my 40s, recently decided to take more time off from work and to buy a sailboat, mainly to go cruising in the Bahamas, etc. I am based in NYC.

My sailing background is quickly described - I passed the European equivalent of ASA 103 years ago and have been sailing on and off, last in Thailand. I have never owned anything bigger than a laser. I would need someone to teach me skipper skills and possibly take refresher courses.

For now, I narrowed my search to two possible sailboats, an Endeavour 32 and a Morgan 33 Out Island. Both options have pros and cons.

Endeavour 32:

PROS
- Excellent condition (new sails, brand new engine, new standing rigging, recent hull job, new everything really)
- love the model

Cons:
- no navigation equipment
- needs upholstery
- no auto pilot
- relatively expensive



Morgan 33:
PROS

- fully equipped for bluewater cruising (large diesel/water tanks, has radar, autopilot, etc.)
- is significantly cheaper than the Endeavour
- "motivated seller"

CONS
- overall in "good", but not in excellent shape
- electronics and radar are old (10 years)
- inconvenient location
- I don't love the look of the Morgan



I would greatly appreciate your thoughts and input -- with regard to the selection of the boats, and general advise about owning a first boat.

TIA!

[Joh.Ghurt]

- love the model

I don't love the look of the Morgan

I think this one is the killer and probably will be the deciding factor.

- fully equipped for bluewater cruising (large diesel/water tanks, has radar, autopilot, etc.)
- electronics and radar are old (10 years)

Which means, the electronics only have marginal benefit.

- no navigation equipment

If you mean no chart plotter / GPS / Radio, this can be solved with modern electronics reasonably well.

- needs upholstery

If you have someone with sewing machine and a little experience, can be done yourself. Been there, did the work, looked decent. If not, this might be expensive.

- no auto pilot

Get a quote on this one and add it. If you go with something like CPT Autopilot Inc. it'll be $2000

[Adelie]

The Morgan has a slight advantage in draft. Since you intend to go to the Bahamas that is not inconsequential. It’s only 1/2’ difference so it shouldn’t impact you much.

New sails is a huge benefit.

Electronics is not that important.
What you NEED is:
Magnetic compass
GPS/plotter
Depth sounder.
Handheld VHF.
Backup handheld GPS/plotter
Backup backup handheld GPS/plotter
Fixed VHF with AIS receiver.
Everything else is a nice to have item.

I would rather spend twice as much on windvane self steering.

If I was going transoceanic I’d get the Endeavor, probably the better sailing boat.

For the ICW and Bahamas the Morgan for living room and slight draft advantage.

[Rohan]

I wouldn't worry too much about navigation electronics in a boat that size. There are multiple options for using GPS and navigation software on your phone or tablet.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

I wouldn't worry about the draft of either boat vis a vis cruising the Bahamas. I have a 5.5 foot draft and it has not been an issue. I like the Endeavor, but another thought is to go slightly bigger, like 36-38 feet.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by FlorianNY

Good day list mates!
Here is another "I want to buy my first sailboat" thread... I appreciate your combined patience and, as always, your input

I am in my 40s, recently decided to take more time off from work and to buy a sailboat, mainly to go cruising in the Bahamas, etc. I am based in NYC.

My sailing background is quickly described - I passed the European equivalent of ASA 103 years ago and have been sailing on and off, last in Thailand. I have never owned anything bigger than a laser. I would need someone to teach me skipper skills and possibly take refresher courses.

For now, I narrowed my search to two possible sailboats, an Endeavour 32 and a Morgan 33 Out Island. Both options have pros and cons.

Endeavour 32:

PROS
- Excellent condition (new sails, brand new engine, new standing rigging, recent hull job, new everything really)
- love the model

Cons:
- no navigation equipment
- needs upholstery
- no auto pilot
- relatively expensive



Morgan 33:
PROS

- fully equipped for bluewater cruising (large diesel/water tanks, has radar, autopilot, etc.)
- is significantly cheaper than the Endeavour
- "motivated seller"

CONS
- overall in "good", but not in excellent shape
- electronics and radar are old (10 years)
- inconvenient location
- I don't love the look of the Morgan



I would greatly appreciate your thoughts and input -- with regard to the selection of the boats, and general advise about owning a first boat.

TIA!

Considering that the Endeavor has new sails, engine and standing rigging, yeah it's going to cost more - that's about 50 grand worth of stuff. As for the lack of electronics, some of us would see that as a plus as it gives you the freedom to choose what you want. If you just don't like the look of the Morgan, you'll probably never be happy with it (and 10 year old electronics is only slightly better than none at all) Upholstery is pretty low on the list of priorities when shopping for a boat. Though it's not cheap, I find much of it resembles the south end of a north bound mule (who the hell would choose that?)

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by FlorianNY

........................I narrowed my search to two possible sailboats, an Endeavour 32 and a Morgan 33 Out Island. Both options have pros and cons..............

Lot to be said for large tankage, radar, autopilot, etc. (10 years old is NOT THAT OLD), significantly lower price and the boat can be buffed out and waxed for a relatively low cost. However, the boat has to put a "smile on your face" and the rigging and engine and sails need to be in good condition otherwise the cost begins.

[flightlead404]

I have looked at several Endeavours recently, and also spent a few days on a Morgan OI 33 in Key West a few months ago.

First on the Endeavours, I don't remember which models had it, but at least the 38 has a plain steel grid in the bottom of the hull and around/supporting the mast step. In all the vessels I looked at this grid was exposed and corroding. It is a very expensive replacement, potentially making the boat valueless. Endeavour also used a lot of plain steel nails in construction, which you'll see evidence of as lots of black marks in the cabin sole and other wood trim. Be aware of those.

I only saw two Endeavours that didn't have significant areas of water damage, both of those had had all their ports and hatches replaced with metal ones.

The Morgan I can't really comment on other than to say it was quite comfortable for two, the V berth worked for us (we're 6' and 5' tall), and it was fairly roomy for a couple for a weekend but probably not for more people, or addition of pets, or for longer than a week.

[Apollo366]

Keep looking, if you don't LOVE the looks' it will always bug you.

Research the Endeavours thurourly , these are very serious problems, is there a user's group on 33's or others?

Their are many other brands that will suit your requirements, look for them.
When I bought my current boat I made a spread sheet of all the "Likely" candidates & listed their pros & cons, electronics wasn't one of them as they're consumables and need updating regularly about 10 yrs or so.

Hull, rig, sails, & engine conditions/hrs were the most important things to consider first. Then cabin layout.

YMMV

Wayne

[David B]

1. Buy a boat you love the look of - that rules out the Morgan it would seem.
It's nice to be able to enjoy not just the sailing, but the aesthetic and comfort of your boat.
Your have got to your forties, treat yourself with something you like.

2. If the Endeavour seems expensive, then is there any reason why you cannot keep looking?

3. there are a lot of other boats in that size range - is there a reason you have narrowed it down to a Morgan or an Endeavour?

[FlorianNY]

Thank you all for your combined input/wisdom. This forum is awesome.