Yet another which boat should I buy

[goodq]

Hello everyone

I hope everyone is safe in light of all the craziness around the world

First off I would like to apologies as this is yet another “which boat should I buy post”. I tried and tried to look at information and I have to say I am more confused now than when I started looking.

I keep finding posts that either have a budget higher than mine or a criteria list that is different to what I want in a boat. I also tried to get into the ratios of SA/D and others and ended up saying getting a migraine.

A little about my background. I started sailing dinghys from a young age and only recently started sailing cruising boats. I have sailed some cruising catamarans which I don’t fancy and some large monohulls 45ft. I also often sail small 26ft keel boats (a Colgate)

I love how the Colgate points so high to the wind and sails on a whisper of breeze. In Qatar where I sail its not known for high winds and most of the places I want to sail require a lot of beating upwind.

I wanted a boat with the following criteria:

• Approx. £50-60K (Max 70K) with refit
• 35ft – 40ft
• Helm rather than a tiller
• No furling mainsail. I prefer stack pack mains
• Two separate cabins so I can sail with friends. I snore so they want me in a locked room and they are in another
• Centre cockpit to have a roomy aft cabin
• Can be easily single handed with all lines led back
• Has a reasonable tacking angle
• Reasonable in light winds (7kts)
• Fun to sail and has a rig that I can trim to keep learning more about sailing larger boats
• Is sea kind during a passage. I intend to sail it to Oman and back
• A solid built boat esp in the rig department since we don’t have companies that do support services for sail boats. (very scarce to even see a sailboat here)
• I prefer a boat available in around UK/Europe and the Med given the eye watering shipping costs should it be further afield.

Nice to have:

• Cabin A/C (not sure this is even possible since no space for a genset)
• Diesel Heating
• Jiffy/slab reefing system
• A separate shower in the head
• Electric marine toilet for the misses

I keep finding nice HR352/HR36 and HR34 (on the small side) which I love the look of. Also all of them seem to be so well kept and lots of money was spent on keeping their systems current (upgraded nav units and autopilots etc). I fear however that they don’t point high enough and would be motoring rather than sailing in light wind which would be a shame

Sorry to keep blabbing this post is long enough already. Thank you all for your feedback in advance and sorry again for being “that guy”

[DDabs]

Why don't you go on yachtworld and start browsing certain areas near you with the criteria that you want...

Search for boats that are under $70k, center cockpit, 35-40 ft. and see what you come up with. Find out which ones you like and which ones you don't, and then make a short list. Come back to us with said short list and see what we think.

[goodq]

I literally open yachtworld everyday and see all the new monohulls that are posted. Everyday

I saw many boats in my price range but he problem I have is I don't know what can sail well to windward and also what would be good in light wind.

[DDabs]

well a good rule of thumb... most boats with a deeper draft, especially deep fin keels as opposed to a full or modified fin keel, go to windward better than other boats.

Boats with a lighter displacement obviously do better in light wind, however any boat can be modified to sail in lighter winds with the right sails.

[Tillerjockey]

With regards to SA/D, below 15 generally needs 8 knots or so to get moving. 17 is a good performer in the 5-8 knot range and above 17 to get exceptional light air performance.

Windward performance is a combination of hull form and keel depth among other things.

A good competitive race boat has to go well to windward. PHRF ratings for a given length boat are a good indicator of windward ability. Longer waterline boats will go faster than short waterline length boats.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "The problem I have is I don't know what can sail well to windward..."

But you say you are a dinghy sailer? Are you having difficulty translating what you learned in a practical way in dinghies to the evaluation the parameters of a given keel boat?

Start here: https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/colgate-26

Understand that the Colgate26 is NOT a cruising boat. It's an overgrown dinghy with a deck, but look at the numbers! A SA/D of 24!!! Luvverly! But given the physical nature of the C26's rig you would never be able to take her to sea under full canvas. An SA/D of 16 or 17 would be much more appropriate. But that means, of course, that in a cruising boat, with a cruising boats hull, you won't be able to point as high - nor sail in so light a wind.

An D/L of 145?? For a cruising boat? You will need a D/L of something like 250 minimum for a cruising boat.

Quote: "I also tried to get into the ratios of SA/D and others and ended up saying getting a migraine."

Well, that wouldn't be very nice, but I think that having considered your opening post and your liking for the C26 you should promise yourself to study up on the very fundamentals of yacht design. Boats are designed to sail in certain waters. And for certain purposes. I.e boats can be designed to be racers or they can be designed to be cruisers. You will see boats promoted as racer/cruisers, but that, IMO, in mere Madison Avenue blather. Similarly, what will do well for the Persian Gulf will not do well for the West Coast of Scotland. A C26 would be wonderful in the Salish Sea of an August afternoon. Not so much of a snarly late November day in those same waters.

I think the best way for you to get started is to look up the data for cruisers that are well esteemed by the cruising crowd. COMPARE THE SPECIFICATIONS of them. Note how similar are the basic parameters (SA/S and D/L) of well esteemed cruising boats. Note also their absolute value. Doing that may give you a headache, but once you got those things under your belt you'll be far better equipped to go shopping. And it'll be far easier for us to help you :-)

All the best.

TrentePieds

[PaulvR]

you need to look in the mass production boat world, Jeanneaus, Beneteaus, Bavarias, Hufours, Hunters, etc. to find better performance than a HR35 in a bigger boat for that price.

There are there for sure, but you'd have to look hard to find adequate blue-water credentials...

[MJH]

Originally Posted by goodq

Hello everyone

I hope everyone is safe in light of all the craziness around the world

First off I would like to apologies as this is yet another “which boat should I buy post”. I tried and tried to look at information and I have to say I am more confused now than when I started looking.

I keep finding posts that either have a budget higher than mine or a criteria list that is different to what I want in a boat. I also tried to get into the ratios of SA/D and others and ended up saying getting a migraine.

A little about my background. I started sailing dinghys from a young age and only recently started sailing cruising boats. I have sailed some cruising catamarans which I don’t fancy and some large monohulls 45ft. I also often sail small 26ft keel boats (a Colgate)

I love how the Colgate points so high to the wind and sails on a whisper of breeze. In Qatar where I sail its not known for high winds and most of the places I want to sail require a lot of beating upwind.

I wanted a boat with the following criteria:

• Approx. £50-60K (Max 70K) with refit
• 35ft – 40ft
• Helm rather than a tiller
• No furling mainsail. I prefer stack pack mains
• Two separate cabins so I can sail with friends. I snore so they want me in a locked room and they are in another
• Centre cockpit to have a roomy aft cabin
• Can be easily single handed with all lines led back
• Has a reasonable tacking angle
• Reasonable in light winds (7kts)
• Fun to sail and has a rig that I can trim to keep learning more about sailing larger boats
• Is sea kind during a passage. I intend to sail it to Oman and back
• A solid built boat esp in the rig department since we don’t have companies that do support services for sail boats. (very scarce to even see a sailboat here)
• I prefer a boat available in around UK/Europe and the Med given the eye watering shipping costs should it be further afield.

Nice to have:

• Cabin A/C (not sure this is even possible since no space for a genset)
• Diesel Heating
• Jiffy/slab reefing system
• A separate shower in the head
• Electric marine toilet for the misses

I keep finding nice HR352/HR36 and HR34 (on the small side) which I love the look of. Also all of them seem to be so well kept and lots of money was spent on keeping their systems current (upgraded nav units and autopilots etc). I fear however that they don’t point high enough and would be motoring rather than sailing in light wind which would be a shame

Sorry to keep blabbing this post is long enough already. Thank you all for your feedback in advance and sorry again for being “that guy”

Of all posts like yours, you appear to have a reasonable idea of what you want to do with a sailing yacht.

The Moderator has given you good advice, you just need to put some time into following it. I strongly support the use of sailingdata.com for yacht comparison...numbers don't lie. Just remember that no boat is perfect and that no boat can do all things well...that's why determining your goal is so important in choosing a sailing yacht for yourself.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[syPhilos]

If you can find one in your neck of the woods .(??) ... a Moody 35 might be nice.
Should fit within your budget, CC, and a lot of room for 35'.

[dadster3]

First, look at a lot of boats, big and small, to find what features appeal to you, and don't be in a rush. Then buy the boat you fall in love with. If you don't love it, you won't care for it.

[goodq]

Originally Posted by DDabs

well a good rule of thumb... most boats with a deeper draft, especially deep fin keels as opposed to a full or modified fin keel, go to windward better than other boats.

Boats with a lighter displacement obviously do better in light wind, however any boat can be modified to sail in lighter winds with the right sails.

I am trying to avoid a full keel for this particular reason.

With regards to SA/D, below 15 generally needs 8 knots or so to get moving. 17 is a good performer in the 5-8 knot range and above 17 to get exceptional light air performance.

Windward performance is a combination of hull form and keel depth among other things.

A good competitive race boat has to go well to windward. PHRF ratings for a given length boat are a good indicator of windward ability. Longer waterline boats will go faster than short waterline length boats.

Thank you so much for this!! I can see that the HR34 is 18.46 from https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/hallberg-rassy-34

I can't find PHRF ratings for all the boats I am interested in. Also sometimes they are not even on sailboatdata

For example I find lots of HR352 for sale on yachtworld, however, I can't seem to find it on sailboatdata

But you say you are a dinghy sailer? Are you having difficulty translating what you learned in a practical way in dinghies to the evaluation the parameters of a given keel boat?

Defo! I am royally confused. @DDabs explained what could be good in light airs but I can't seem to find a design ratio that says "this would go well to windward". Help

Of all posts like yours, you appear to have a reasonable idea of what you want to do with a sailing yacht.

If you can find one in your neck of the woods .(??) ... a Moody 35 might be nice.
Should fit within your budget, CC, and a lot of room for 35'.

The only thing you can find here are power boats unfortunately. Seems like this region just forgot everything about the sailing heritage. Anything I get would have to be shipped here.

[syPhilos]

Originally Posted by goodq

The only thing you can find here are power boats unfortunately. Seems like this region just forgot everything about the sailing heritage. Anything I get would have to be shipped here.

Yes, sorry, I saw that you were looking in UK/Europe and the Med after I hit 'submit'

But add Moody's to your list, they're not hard to find in the UK

[goodq]

Originally Posted by syPhilos

If you can find one in your neck of the woods .(??) ... a Moody 35 might be nice.
Should fit within your budget, CC, and a lot of room for 35'.

I just went through all the Moody 35s on yachtworld. I absolutely love the layout of this boat. The placement of the toilet is excellent. Really does feel like its bigger then it is.

The difference between Moody and the HR is that it looks to me that the HRs are more taken care off from what I see.

If the price and condition were the same would you buy a Moody 35 or a HR 352?

I also see that some come with this funny looking twin keel. Not sure if that is better or worse

[letsgetsailing3]

Look at them in person.

Get the one in the best condition that tugs on your heart strings.

The market has pretty much sorted out boat values in a general sense.

Nobody here can tell you what you want, and if you care what anybody else here thinks you'll just end up buying their boat. Just make sure you get the right size. Because if it's too small, you'll be back on the market for three feet more next year.

This is like asking people which girlfriend you should have. Just doesn't work.

[KadeyKrogen38]

They say Gentlemen don’t sail to windward. There is some truth to that old saying. It is not comfortable for long periods and is usually slow. Most motor sail on close reach or such. Most likely you will be doing the same if not for yourself but your crew.