Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

[Tscott8201]

Simple question, with what I am guessing is a very complicated answer. Where is the line drawn between full fledged yacht and motor sailer? I find the line is pretty fuzzy, as a matter of fact, the more I ponder the question, I am not even sure what the definition of a motor sailer is.

Tom

[ruby tuesday]

i'm with you on this one.

most of the yacht brokers term something like a Fisher 34 as a motorsailer - so if we're gunna use those types of terms then i suppose its a trawler with a stick and rags on it.

but then again you could say that any sailing boat fitted with an auxillary motor is a capable motor sailor.

this ones is gunna run and run

[skipmac]

Before even starting maybe we need to understand what you mean by yacht? Yacht could be pure power boat but I assume you are using yacht to mean sailboat?

There is no exact definition of where the line crosses between a sailboat with an engine and a motor sailor. Sometimes I have seen a motorsailor described by a ration like 80/20 or 60/40. The 80 meaning it derives 80% of it's power/speed/performance from sail, 20% from power.

So as commonly used in the business (yacht sales and brokerage) a boat that is so big, wide and tall that it cannot perform very well under sail AND has a larger than typical engine will cross the line from sailboat to motor sailor.

[Tscott8201]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Before even starting maybe we need to understand what you mean by yacht? Yacht could be pure power boat but I assume you are using yacht to mean sailboat?

There is no exact definition of where the line crosses between a sailboat with an engine and a motor sailor. Sometimes I have seen a motorsailor described by a ration like 80/20 or 60/40. The 80 meaning it derives 80% of it's power/speed/performance from sail, 20% from power.

So as commonly used in the business (yacht sales and brokerage) a boat that is so big, wide and tall that it cannot perform very well under sail AND has a larger than typical engine will cross the line from sailboat to motor sailor.

Yes, you are correct in assuming I mean a full fledged sailing yacht.

Tom

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Tscott8201

Yes, you are correct in assuming I mean a full fledged sailing yacht.

Tom

In the context that seemed to make sense.

So here's another way to put it, short and sweet.

Streamlined and sleek = sailboat
Fat and tubby = motor sailor

[Tingum]

A motor sailor is simply another form of yacht, as is a sailing yacht or a motor yacht. You can even have a submersible yacht!

[dannc]

Originally Posted by skipmac

In the context that seemed to make sense.

So here's another way to put it, short and sweet.

Streamlined and sleek = sailboat
Fat and tubby = motor sailor

By that definition, a multihull is a motor sailor.





Later,
Dan

[goat]

Sail area to displacement is where I'd start.

Sent from my SM-G730W8 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by dannc

By that definition, a multihull is a motor sailor.





Later,
Dan

Multihulls aren't fat, just wide. I'm not saying anything more on the subject. I'm married and (usually) know when to keep my mouth shut.

[mstrebe]

You could make a couple of different arguments about what constitutes a motor sailor, or you can combine them all into a single model.

If you took the following attributes and placed them on an N-dimensional graph, and then entered a number of boats that are clearly sailing yachts vs. clearly motor-sailors, you'd wind up with a model that you could use to plug in attributes and have the model tell you. It's this complicated because any one of these attributes can overlap, but their product will tell you whether a boat is a motor-sailor or not.

SA/D ratio (my guess? <15 = motor sailor)
Fuel tankage/LOA (my guess? > 1 gallon per LOA = motor sailor)
hp/D ratio (my guess? > 2hp / 1000lbs. D = motor sailor)
Lwl/Bwl ratio (my guess? <4 = motor sailor)

The more of these you hit, the more likely you are a motor sailor.

[fjwiley1]

Well I guess the brochure on my 1973 Ketch was correct....it is officially a Motor Sailer....


Life is Good if you Keppa Smilin.....

[Seymore]

Originally Posted by Tscott8201

Where is the line drawn between full fledged yacht and motor sailer? Tom

A motorsailer does neither one well.

[Lepke]

A motorsailer usually has an enclosed pilothouse regardless of the sail rig. It can be commercial as in albacore tuna boats.

[Panope]

The line between will always be blurry. To the above comments I will add that long, shallow keels and large, multi-blade propellers will be more associated motor sailors.

Panope used to be a pure sailboat; complete with two masts, anemic engine, tiny prop, puny fuel tank and no inside steering.

Now she has one mast, a big engine (with big, draggy prop), big fuel tanks and a towering pilot house.

The boat ticks most of the "motor sailor" boxes now and does motor beautifully. The funny thing is, she also sails just as good (better in light air) now than before the changes.

I Don't know what to call it. How about a boat?

Steve

[bobnlesley]

Well I guess the brochure on my 1973 Ketch was correct....it is officially a Motor Sailer....

I'll not be able to help much either: I guess all of us would as an example agree that the Fishers and there ilk are motorsailers and that Open-50s are yachts, but beyond that it gets increasingly blurry and our own yacht's a fine example:

We sail 35' Trident 'Challenger' a stern cockpit sloop, originally built with an engine of about 30hp in it and I've never seen it referred to as anything other than a 'yacht'.
Trident Marine also built a 35' 'Warrior' a centre cockpit sloop, originally fitted with an engine of about 60hp and I would say that references to this model are 60/40 in describing it as a yacht or a motorsailor; I suspect because of the big engine?.
During the same period, Trident Marine also built a few 35' 'Voyagers' this being a stern-cockpit pilot-house sloop, originally fitted with an engine of about 40hp; I would say that references to this model are 60/40 in describing it as a motorsailor rather than a yacht, this being on the basis of its pilot house.

Now all three vessels have exactly the same hull/underwater profile, similar weight and whilst I believe that the Voyager's mast is a touch shorter, I think this is due only to the deck-moulding profile and the sail area of all three's remains identical. Whilst none of them could be described as 'fast', they're all very tough and capable ocean crossers (under sail) If I had to choose the best 'sailing' yacht amongst them, I'd probably plump for the Warrior, just shading the Challenger and then the Voyager, with accommodation in the reverse order - though bigger steps between the three.

Honestly, I really don't know; the Challenger's definitely a 'yacht' and with a smaller (why the 60hp job?) the Warrior would always be so thought to, but if they'd put the big motor in the Voyager, I think everyone would've called that a motorsailor, due to its more palatial accommodation?