Why the hate on Island Packets?

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

Keel Envy: when you just hard-grounded your bolt-on fin-keeled boat and realize it's going to cost a significant percentage of what the boat used to be worth a hour ago to fix the damage.

Maybe that should be called "Navigational ability envy"?

All jokes aside, we know that our boats are compromises. Some people (Island Packet owners) lean more towards cruising-type compromises, and others (me) lean more towards racing-type compromises. Actually, with my shoal keel, I think my boat sits squarely in the middle of the racer-cruiser spectrum. I don't hate Island Packets, they are just not the type of boat I personally would be happy with. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

[wingssail]

Several of my friends have Island Packet yachts. The owners invariably love their boats and care for them. Around here nobody hates Island Packets and I have never personally seen one which was not well cared for. I am often surprised to find the ages of these boats; they look like new but are often quite old! The owners are invariably competent people, however these are often their first boats, and often their first real sailing experience.

Mostly the Island Packets are sailed very little, yet I know one which has crossed the Pacific twice, each direction, at the equator, so they do get out.

I think they are well built, very well finished, boats which suit their intended purpose, and are marketed to people based on perceived quality, not on sailing performance, however they can sail, even to windward.

So I don't think there is good reason to "hate" them. Somebody who arrogantly assumes that if the boat can't climb to windward like a race boat it is no good; well that person's opinion isn't worth much in my view.

We recently (before Covid) had a sail training exercise in which 5 out of the 9 boats which went out were Island Packets. Here is a photo of one which I got from shore. Amazingly, it is going to windward and was not the last boat to the windward mark!

[mdsdurango]

Thanks to all posters replying to my inquire. Being a few inches over six feet tall makes finding a boat under 35' challenging. I will be living aboard and cruising for at least a year and want the head room. My intent is to cruise up the east coast from Florida following the weather and either continuing into the great lakes and back down following the loop, inland, or heading back down the coast. Consequently, not only do I desire the cabin head room but need to keep the draft below five feet. IP fits the bill and they are easy to find.
I am certainly open to other suggestions if you have them. Thanks again!!

[CF32907]

Hi all, CaptVR here.
Been surveying for a good share of my 74 years. Island Packet's are great boats, have some short comings sure, I will tell you all boats do, and most have many more than IP. You will find that some people are quite prone to bashing others boats, that's just because the feel screwed on what they bought.
I will tell you all boats are a trade-off. Some go to weather, some don't. Some handle heavy seas well, some don't. I will tell you, I've surveyed for 20+ years, looked and sailed 1000's of boats over my 74 years, been sailing since I was 12. Built six boats.
Examine all logs from all configurations of boats, Take the logs of boats sailed all over the States and Caribbean for 5 years and all times of the year, you will find all boats between 26-27 feet and 36-38 foot will all have the same cruising speed of 5-6 knots per 5 year average. All boats are a trade-off. You say I want a deep displacement hull for Ocean passages, look a a million dollar Oyster, shallow draft fin keel, fast Ocean passages. You take that deep draft to the Bahama's you are so restricted to places to visit. Spent a number of years there, my schooner drew 7' just to float.
So all you over critical yahoo's that think everyone else's choices were bad, remember, they probably think the same way about your choice but have more courtesy than to tell you screwed up. Now all you out there with boats, be kind and courteous to others, they have reasons for the decisions they made that you are not aware of.
One casual observation over the years, most boat bashers, if they do own a boat, they use it once or twice a year and it rots at the dock.
Happy sailing all, just remember, a nice comment to someone will normally bring a nice comment in return, and were happy sailors. Don't stir animosity, we have enough of that in our society now..... Happy Sailing all.... Capt. Vince Rakstis Ret. MS St. Pete, Fl.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

Keel Envy: when you just hard-grounded your bolt-on fin-keeled boat and realize it's going to cost a significant percentage of what the boat used to be worth a hour ago to fix the damage.

Ahhhh, wouldn't you just love to have a welded-on long steel keel whose bottom is 3/4" plate (after all, it's just a little more ballast where it counts most). It has a some scratches! I've occasionally had to spend a few minutes with a file to take the burrs off before re-painting!

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Jammer

They are designed as Bahamas/Caribbean cruisers and are spacious, shallow draft vessels, which benefits come at the expense of light air and upwind performance. I think on the whole they are well liked by their purchasers, who are largely people for whom sailing performance is a secondary consideration.


There are several facts to consider before purchasing:

• Large wetted surface compared to sail area results in poor performance in light airs.
• Shallow keel and beamy hull shape lead to comparatively poor performance upwind.
• Most have in-mast furling, for better or for worse depending on your tastes.
• The staysail boom, while a great convenience when short tacking, interferes with using the foredeck for much of anything else, particularly dinghy stowage.
• Chainplate replacement is more often necessary and more costly than on other boats of similar size, at least for certain years.
• They are sought-after boats and command a premium price; yet many were made and there are always quite a few on the market

When the IP 380's came out was surprised to note that the IP 380 was almost identical underwater as my Morgan OI and the Morgan OI's always had the same negative comments about performance. Of course, like me, those that love their boats are pleased with what they offer and accept the compromise. I like the cutter rig better that my ketch, but I needed to pass under the 55' fixed bridges. I was always pleased with the same long keel and 4'3" draft. I did have the advantage of easy chain plate inspection and replacement; however, placed outside the hull, there is less room for close sheeting. I had about 8 inches more beam and not the divynicell (spelling?) deck core, but a very similar design with a very similar performance.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

Keel Envy: when you just hard-grounded your bolt-on fin-keeled boat and realize it's going to cost a significant percentage of what the boat used to be worth a hour ago to fix the damage.

BlackHeron, that is a boogieman fear you have just expressed, it expresses a fearful occurrence which is,
a) pretty much uncommon
b) the fault of poor navigation, not the design of the hull.

In 35 years of operating a "bolt on fin keeled boat" including visiting 57 countries around the world and more than a few hard groundings, (well, a few, at least) we have never had damage to our keel or hull which was expensive to repair. I have always repaired my own keel damage, often there is something to fix but it has rarely been significant. (The worst was hitting a rock at 7.5 knots under power. That repair was limited to the lower leading edge and repaired over two days at minimal cost). Most boats with bolt on keels are engineered to withstand groundings.

On the other hand boats with encapsulated keels, which can also have groundings, not only will have fiberglass work to do but there is the possibility of water ingress, and that can result in an expensive repair.



Finally, I'll accept the risk of occasional keel damage once every few years rather than the 24/7 sailing penalty of having an inefficient keel. For 34 years I've enjoyed excellent sailing performance at the cost of a few minor repairs. On the other hand I could have had 34 years of mediocre keel performance and STILL have had to do some repairs.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by wingssail

The owners are invariably competent people, however these are often their first boats, and often their first real sailing experience.

Mostly the Island Packets are sailed very little, yet I know one which has crossed the Pacific twice, each direction, at the equator, so they do get out.

Often their 1st boats and first real sailing experience? Sailed very little?

Respectfully, firmly, disagree with your assumptions. IP's cross all the oceans all the time. Ip's are not bought only by by people buying their 1st boat and have no experience. Where do you get such ideas??

To the OP. I'm just over 6' and standing headroom everywhere inside the boat is a must have for me. You're definitely on the right track. Re: IP's. Can they sail upwind as fast as everyone else? No. Are they the slowest, No.
Are they well built? Yes. I like the layouts and for cruising makes sense. I also like Tayana 37's which you might consider. One nice thing about IP's is that they are still in business and you can call the factory for advice, parts etc. and being a well respected boat they hold their value. Are they for everyone? No but no boat is.

I like mine for what it is. I like catamarans (yes, IP made the IP Packet Cat 35 for a few years) . I like the build quality of my boat and the fact that I have nearly standing headroom in both engine compartments something the designer I was working with could not put into the 115' custom sailboat project we were working on! You'd think for 15 million dollars I could get that wouldn't you?

I'm not hesitant to cross oceans in my IP and bought it to do so. I've a lot of sailing experience both professionally and personally and this is not my 1st boat by any means. It is just the one I chose for specific reasons to do a particular job.

[LLCoolDave]

Originally Posted by mdsdurango

Thanks to all posters replying to my inquire. Being a few inches over six feet tall makes finding a boat under 35' challenging. I will be living aboard and cruising for at least a year and want the head room. My intent is to cruise up the east coast from Florida following the weather and either continuing into the great lakes and back down following the loop, inland, or heading back down the coast. Consequently, not only do I desire the cabin head room but need to keep the draft below five feet. IP fits the bill and they are easy to find.
I am certainly open to other suggestions if you have them. Thanks again!!

If you wanted to save some money, look at some Pearson 365s. Prices are $20k to $35k. 6'3 headroom. Very generous tankage. 4.5ft draft. Encapsulated lead keel. I'm 6'4 and lived on my 367 with 6'3 headroom for 1.5 years. It hasn't bothered me a bit.

[gonesail]

the built in fuel tank and chainplate problem convinced me to avoid the packets. i looked at more than few IP 35s in Florida and found many were in sad condition with high asking prices. oh well

[waterman46]

Perhaps some of that "hate" is really jealousy. High quality boats are often subject of such feelings. I don't have a "quality" boat, furthermore I confess, I "hate" big catamarans with their acres of solar panels!

[dennismenace111]

It couldn't be that they are relatively expensive yet have a habit of losing the rig due to stainless chainplate failures?

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Several of my friends have Island Packet yachts. The owners invariably love their boats and care for them. Around here nobody hates Island Packets and I have never personally seen one which was not well cared for. I am often surprised to find the ages of these boats; they look like new but are often quite old! The owners are invariably competent people, however these are often their first boats, and often their first real sailing experience.

Mostly the Island Packets are sailed very little, yet I know one which has crossed the Pacific twice, each direction, at the equator, so they do get out.

I think they are well built, very well finished, boats which suit their intended purpose, and are marketed to people based on perceived quality, not on sailing performance, however they can sail, even to windward.

So I don't think there is good reason to "hate" them. Somebody who arrogantly assumes that if the boat can't climb to windward like a race boat it is no good; well that person's opinion isn't worth much in my view.

We recently (before Covid) had a sail training exercise in which 5 out of the 9 boats which went out were Island Packets. Here is a photo of one which I got from shore. Amazingly, it is going to windward and was not the last boat to the windward mark!

My dentist had a IP45 which he sailed around the world twice by different routes taking about 3 years each circuit.He took many long distance upwind routes.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

When the IP 380's came out was surprised to note that the IP 380 was almost identical underwater as my Morgan OI and the Morgan OI's always had the same negative comments about performance. Of course, like me, those that love their boats are pleased with what they offer and accept the compromise. I like the cutter rig better that my ketch, but I needed to pass under the 55' fixed bridges. I was always pleased with the same long keel and 4'3" draft. I did have the advantage of easy chain plate inspection and replacement; however, placed outside the hull, there is less room for close sheeting. I had about 8 inches more beam and not the divynicell (spelling?) deck core, but a very similar design with a very similar performance.

IP produced their own core material. No imagineable person would trade their IP for any Out Island tub.

[Jim Woodall]

A friend owned an IP 465, Changin’ Tags, (he owned car dealerships) and his boat was probably one of the best, if not the best, equipped 465 on the water. IPs are high quality. In 2013 CT was in the Annapolis Boat Show. Most people mistook her for a new boat. By 2013 she had made 6 or 7 trips from the Chesapeake to the Virgin Islands and back, plus cruised for each of those seasons full time while in the Caribbean. Admittedly the owner maintained her to an extremely high standard - in near Bristol condition from the day he purchased her. She was a very, very well-built sailboat.

I sailed her in the Chesapeake a couple of times and made one passage from Norfolk to St. Thomas. She was a great cruising boat - sailed well on most points of sail (not great to windward, but OK), lots of storage, excellent tankage, and very sea kindly. The center cockpit was big, comfortable, dry, and safe. Just a fantastic boat all around. Unfortunately Irma claimed her while on the hard in St. Thomas in 2017. I don’t know if anyone bought her from the insurance company and repaired her. Ironically, my boat was in Road Town and lost to Irma as well..