What made Pilot Cutter so fast? Just rumors?

[NewAlexandria]

Any good books on Sailboat designs? But not the modern sailboats. I like anything 80s and before. Wooden boats are even better.

[Don C L]

Skene's Elements of Yacht Design.

[NewAlexandria]

Ordered. $5 on ebay with free shipping. Not sure how that works

[Pauls]

An excellent book on seaworthiness and performance of yachts,, with a significant focus on old yacht designs like the pilot cutters: Seaworthiness the Forgotten Factor, by Marchaj. You absorb this and you'll understand more about yacht design than a lot of the pros.

The Nature of Boats, by Gerr. This is an excellent, clear, easy to understand book by a serious, talented designer who is also the head of the Westlawn Institute of Yacht Design. Exceptionally clear, useful, and very easy to read.

It's good you want to study. The knowledge you can gain is well worth it.

[NewAlexandria]

Got the The Nature of Boats, by Gerr for $5 as well. I wanted one that is easy to understand first. Then I'll get the other book.

[Pauls]

Good. The Nature of Boats will set you up well for Marchaj's "Seaworthiness". There is nothing in print that compares to "Seaworthiness". Marchaj was a national champion sailor and an internationally recognized consultant for aerodynamics and yacht design.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by NewAlexandria

Got the The Nature of Boats, by Gerr for $5 as well. I wanted one that is easy to understand first. Then I'll get the other book.

Good thinking and good approach. When you get to the inevitable "what boat should I buy?" question Marchaj's Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Yacht Design is an excellent read. It gets into not only hull shapes, but interior layouts and deck and rigging design options. Calder's Cruising Handbook is excellent in the chapters on boat design, the rest is gear and a short version of Chapmans and Duttons.

[NewAlexandria]

Both books came in. Both seem extremely good in their own ways.

[NewAlexandria]

OK, I finished the Nature of Boats. First 50 or so pages I could not adjust to her and I did not understand stuff, but then I got going. Now I want to go back to those first 80 pages and reread them. They were good. It opened my view on things and I purchased another book: The Sea Bright Skiff ((I'm from New Jersey currently).

Book is what basically everything is in engineering and in live. There must be some balance achieved and any variance off that balance is a reward in some area with a price in another. So all makes sense. Book was very good.

Reading books will be nice, I'll read like 5, but that's only 25%. The other 25% will be designing it, another 25% building it, and the last 25% might be trying to get feedback from a boat, adjusting, testing, and improving. I have built many things in my live to know that reading books is nice, but the whole process is a bit more complicated.

I now have a general understanding of a boat. Enough to keep reading.

There was something in the book, or maybe in my head regarding the most fundamental concept of a boat: length vs width. That ratio in all boats, books, online is kind of against physics and mathematics. Makes no logical sense. I will research this further and when ready I"ll post it here.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by NewAlexandria

Reading books will be nice, I'll read like 5, but that's only 25%. The other 25% will be designing it, another 25% building it, and the last 25% might be trying to get feedback from a boat, adjusting, testing, and improving. I have built many things in my live to know that reading books is nice, but the whole process is a bit more complicated.

I now have a general understanding of a boat. Enough to keep reading.

There was something in the book, or maybe in my head regarding the most fundamental concept of a boat: length vs width. That ratio in all boats, books, online is kind of against physics and mathematics. Makes no logical sense. I will research this further and when ready I"ll post it here.

Jeepers, this thread started off with you wondering what made a pilot cutter "fast", and now you're going to question how "Logical" successful designers have been?
And then try to design and build your own boat and then get feedback/testing and improving?
How many lifetimes do you have?
You say you've built stuff, Ok, here's a great idea, one that hundreds of people have done over the last several decades or so.
Go to "Atkin Boat Plans", pick some design and build it, and build it like the plans say.
I repeat: Build-it-to-the-Plans.
When you're done, you'll have a useful boat instead of a monstrosity.
Oh, get some literature/book on "Lofting", you'll learn that lofting is the essence of boat building, and it'll teach you something about the "Lines" of a boat and how to "read" them.
When you understand how to "read the lines" you'll see how various shapes present their pros/cons.
Ok, now as Bill Atkin would say, "Thus ends".

[catsketcher]

As others have said, the stuff you read is incorrect.
I have a 38 catamaran that can average 10 knots for hours. (We have done 160 Miles in 16 hours) To sustain this average we have to hit 15-16 knots every now and then.
As for pilot cutters, they were designed before overhang liking rules came into effect. They were designed to be seaworthy and be great hove to, waiting for shipping. I have just finished a great book on the pilot cutter Jolie Briese. She had an enormous boom and unlike inshore sandbaggers her crew needed to be able to get to the end easily, hence the requirement for a long stern.

[TrentePieds]

Alexandria:

Bowdrie's advice to you is ABSOLUTELY sound!

He sez: "Oh, get some literature/book on "Lofting", you'll learn that lofting is the essence of boat building, and it'll teach you something about the "Lines" of a boat and how to "read" them. When you understand how to "read the lines" you'll see how various shapes present their pros/cons."

I will go him one better :-):

Get yourself a drafting table 5 x 3 feet. Smaller will not really do for this purpose. Get yourself half a dozen "splines" (thin, flexible strips of wood or perspex) and a dozen "ducks" also known as "spline weights". And a sharp 2H pencil. And a roll of decent drafting vellum. And a "K&E" eraser - you'll be needing it :-)!

Now set about developing a set of lines for the boat you wish to build for yourself. For a 30 foot boat, I would use a scale 1½" to the foot. Be warned that to develop a set of lines, manually, as the lines for all decent boats were developed in "pilot cutter times", will take a competent designer about 50 hours. You, for a first attempt, should allocate at least twice that amount of time to the job. Get a copy of Skene's Elements of Yacht Design by Francis Kinney, to steady you up along the way.

When you've finished the lines drawing, you will have come to understand one of two things: 1) what all the stuff you've read about really means, or 2) that boat design is not really your game.

You can, of course, design boats using computers. It requires special programmes that are quite costly. But worse than that, the "learning curve" for such a programme is enormously steep and has nothing whatsoever to do with the stuff YOU are trying to learn: boat design. The necessary focus on learning to manipulate a sophisticated computer programme will, IMO, get in the way of your principal purpose: viz coming to understand yacht design.

The best way for a man in your position to learn yacht design is to enroll in one of the design schools such as this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westla...ine_Technology

The tuition is quite costly, and the course of study is intellectually demanding. Nevertheless it is, IMO, the only way to fly. Doing what you appear to be doing can only lead to grievous disappointment.

Bonne chance!

TrentePieds

[NewAlexandria]

You guys misunderstood me. I'm no simple kid of the street that walked in here and asked why is this boat faster than the other. I have architected and built things as complicated as a sailboat.

In early 2000s I designed the trading system (and most software algos) for Morgan Stanley. The house I built circa 2004 when it was time to sell people showed up with cameras and notebooks, not to buy, but to copy everything. The Crypto Coin I invented around 2017 had to be scratched and hidden form all, as it would possibly collapse the monetary system in the Western Civilization. The quality of restoration projects I do in my fun time don't exist in USA. More, the boats I watch "painted" make me realize you would learn a lot from me. There are paint compounds on this planet that don't peal and get damaged in water. I challenged many products and ideas on this planet and mostly I was correct. When I say there are flaws in boat designs and generic ideas, I'm not knocking anyone down, I simply see tons of way of improvement. There are many people on this planet that have different talents. If I REALLY will want to design a sailboat, it will top all sailboats on the planet most likely. Any software you need to me to have and learn it, I will have it and mastered in about 2 or 3 weeks. I have very little money,but own everything I ever wanted, as you don't need much to get things if you really want it. I can have any sailboat I want for about 2 or 3k and make her top boat in the country.

All your advises are great, but you can't judge everyone with an average instrument. Some people simple are different. I'm not cocky at all, but it's insanely difficult for me to explain myself to 99% of humans, unless they see the results, and at that point is simply too late.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by NewAlexandria

If I REALLY will want to design a sailboat, it will top all sailboats on the planet most likely.

I for one, would REALLY like to hear what Herreshoff, Stevens, Gielow, Alden, Milne, Crouse, Rhodes, and a few score of others along with builders such as Nevins might say if they could read what you wrote.
Forget about books just get to work designing and building the boat that will be the best on the planet.
Adios, I'm out of here, as Bill Atkin would say, "Thus ends".

[TrentePieds]

I don't think we "misunderstood" anything at all - but maybe NewAlexandria did ;-0)!

TP