The Perfect 60' to 65' Cruising Boat

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

One significant difference if I'm not mistaken would be the Oyster 53 being a deep draft keel at 7ft 4 inches vs the Moody 54 being shoal draft at 5ft 10 inches. How does this help your boat on a windward tack? It would seem to work against windward performance.

Also, we do have a complete shop with all around engine and genset access. You must have missed it.

Some Moody 54's were built with shoal keels, but most of them, including mine, have the deep keel at 7 1/2 feet. The Moody's underwater shape is similar to but slightly more aggressive than that of the Oysters, with a semi-balanced rudder for example, and she goes to weather reasonably well for a cruising boat. I gained a whole lot of windward ability when I added the high aspect blade jib, but I still want more.

By the way, speaking of windward ability, a crucial factor is SPEED. Because more speed means more power from the underwater foils and less leeway. This is why performance catamarans do so well upwind -- contrary to the prejudices of many mono sailors. So this is yet another reason to keep down D/L.

TJ, what is D/L again of Rocket Science? Rocket Science is all carbon, is quite stripped-down, and IIRC D/L is under 100, right?. She's not uncomfortable, is she? And TJ has crossed the North Atlantic West to East over the Northern Route, which will certainly reveal any deficiencies of motion comfort!

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Some Moody 54's were built with shoal keels, but most of them, including mine, have the deep keel at 7 1/2 feet. The Moody's underwater shape is similar to but slightly more aggressive than that of the Oysters, with a semi-balanced rudder for example, and she goes to weather reasonably well for a cruising boat. I gained a whole lot of windward ability when I added the high aspect blade jib, but I still want more.

By the way, speaking of windward ability, a crucial factor is SPEED. Because more speed means more power from the underwater foils and less leeway. This is why performance catamarans do so well upwind -- contrary to the prejudices of many mono sailors. So this is yet another reason to keep down D/L.

TJ, what is D/L again of Rocket Science? Rocket Science is all carbon, is quite stripped-down, and IIRC D/L is under 100, right?. She's not uncomfortable, is she? And TJ has crossed the North Atlantic West to East over the Northern Route, which will certainly reveal any deficiencies of motion comfort!

Dock, the D/L on RS is 72. She has a 54' LWL, and displaces 10,9MT in cruising trim.

I have no complaints about the motion at all. She feels way heavier than she really is, actually. This is thanks to the hull shape in large part, but is also due to the weight being really centralized (although the chain is forward, which I'd like to change, but with the watertight bulkhead, that's a challenge I'll not undertake).

We hit speeds in excess of 15 knots regularly on autopilot on this boat. You can't even tell you're going all that fast, honestly, unless you're looking at the roostertail or the speedo. Obviously, upwind is a different story. We sail as slow as anybody.

As I posted earlier, take a look at the 'technical details' tab on the site. It explains the design philosophy far better than I can.

We're off to lunch-I'll check back in later

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TJ D

Dock, the D/L on RS is 72. She has a 54' LWL, and displaces 10,9MT in cruising trim.

I have no complaints about the motion at all. She feels way heavier than she really is, actually. This is thanks to the hull shape in large part, but is also due to the weight being really centralized (although the chain is forward, which I'd like to change, but with the watertight bulkhead, that's a challenge I'll not undertake).

We hit speeds in excess of 15 knots regularly on autopilot on this boat. You can't even tell you're going all that fast, honestly, unless you're looking at the roostertail or the speedo. Obviously, upwind is a different story. We sail as slow as anybody.

As I posted earlier, take a look at the 'technical details' tab on the site. It explains the design philosophy far better than I can.

We're off to lunch-I'll check back in later

Well, there you go!

I'm guessing that the "centralized weight" plays a big role in this.

D/L 72 -- yowza! Wow! If that's comfortable, the I don't really doubt that 120 or 130 will be comfortable enough for me. With the weight centralized etc.

I think there are a lot of lessons for me in the Rocket Science design. I will study your web site.

[LisaT]

Thank you for your detailed analysis. I just was aboard a Moody 54 in Newport RI and I'm serious about a possible purchase.

We will be sailing out of Newport RI. & Cowes. It sounds like you've done some major trips with your Moody. May I ask how long you've owned her?
Specifically to the Moody, is there anything else you would add, that is available?

We just sold our 1914 classic, after 37 years of ownership, and this will be a big change for us. I hope to continue to do transatlantic crossings (no more racing) but I also would like to be able to do the Virgin Islands etc.

I will probably try to charter a Moody 54 first in Europe, and see how it goes.

Many thanks,
LisaT

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by LisaT

Thank you for your detailed analysis. I just was aboard a Moody 54 in Newport RI and I'm serious about a possible purchase.

We will be sailing out of Newport RI. & Cowes. It sounds like you've done some major trips with your Moody. May I ask how long you've owned her?
Specifically to the Moody, is there anything else you would add, that is available?

We just sold our 1914 classic, after 37 years of ownership, and this will be a big change for us. I hope to continue to do transatlantic crossings (no more racing) but I also would like to be able to do the Virgin Islands etc.

I will probably try to charter a Moody 54 first in Europe, and see how it goes.

Many thanks,
LisaT

Hi Lisa:

I'm on my ninth year with my Moody 54, and I've sailed her about 35,000 miles in that time. I doubt if you will find one for charter, but you're welcome to come have a look at mine.

They are good boats. Like all boats, with some pluses and some minuses.
Very briefly, some of the pros and cons:

Pro:

1. Immensely strong structurally. In fact, best structure of any plastic boat I've ever seen, and by a pretty wide margin. For example, the chain plates are more massive than those of a Swan 90 I spent time on -- seriously.

2. Reasonably light and quite good sailing performance. Much faster than comparable Oyster, for example.

3. Excellent rig and deck hardware -- all the best out of the Selden and Lewmar catalogues. 10 winches; 4 of them electric, and all big enough.

4. Quite roomy and nice accommodation. Excellent galley. Roomy and comfortable heads.

5. Lot of nice touches like counterbalanced disappearing plexiglass wash board, plexiglass scuttle, galley extraction fan, excellent hand holds in the salon, etc. etc.

6. Excellent electrical, plumbing, etc. installations.

7. Excellent tanks (all high density PE from Tek Tanks, except the fuel tank).

Minuses:

1. Only one watertight bulkhead -- lazarette communicates with the main bilge.

2. Poor deck storage -- no sail locker.

3. Quality of fitout disappointing for a boat of this class -- much better than mass produced boats, but a visible cut below Oyster and Discovery. Cabinet latches are pure carp, for example.

4. Moody no longer exists, so your boat is an orphan.

5. Expensive. Not significantly cheaper than comparable Oyster or Discovery of the same age.

6. Nav station is very good, but it is down "in a cave" -- a step lower than the salon.

7. Forward deck salon windows don't open, and you can't see forward through them (but you can look up at the sails ).

8. Outstanding oversized, quality dorades, big cut above what you get on comparable boats (HR, Discovery, Oyster), but hull ports don't open, deck salon windows don't open, and in general ventilation is not really good enough for the tropics. For the Caribbean or other hot places, you really want something like the Oysters with their low decks and big opening forward deck salon windows -- at anchor, the wind blows right through the salon.

9. Has a fixed windshield like HR, and this is an advantage over Oyster for cold latitudes. But it's plastic , so you can't fit a wiper. Unlike the lovely glass windshields on HR's.


I'll sell you mine in a couple of years when my next boat is built But, seriously, be sure to look at HR, Contest, Discovery, Oyster, to get a feel for what you really want, before you buy.

[JJ77]

Hello Lisa,

Here is a site about a Moody 54 for charter,last posts seem to be a bit old however but you never know until you tried.

Moody 54 | Scotland Sailing

cheers,
JJ

[Pete7]

Looks like its still for charter:

Mainsail Corporate Yachting Events: corporate events services, corporate hospitality, training events - Kip Marina, Scotland

[UNCIVILIZED]

You can charter boats which aren't listed anywhere as being for charter. It's a matter of meeting/getting to know a boat's owner, & seeing if he's open to the idea. And this kind of thing is done all the time, especially with boats which are otherwise lightly used. As it's a revenue source for the owner, along with his knowing that some of her maintenance costs are being bourne by the party chartering her.

If you need some examples of contracts for this, & to see what kinds of things need to be in them. Along with feedback both from owner's who've tried it, & charterers, do a bit of asking around at various clubs & you'll find folks who've done it. Especially in the racing fleet, where it's the norm to charter a boat for a specific race, like the Transpac, a race series, or a full season or more.

And I'm sure that having the names (& support) of multiple parties who've done this would go quite a ways towards assuaging the concerns that any particular owner might have about chartering his boat. Basically, make your own opportunity for it to happen.


EDIT: You can even contact a charter company or three in order to borrow some of their wisdom & legal paperwork templates to do something like this.

[boom23]

I am not sure if this boat came up in this discussion, but here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cga9g7z4t_o

I do not know the boat or owner. I have no connection whatsoever.

[fallingeggs]

DH, curious about your planned reefing for the mainsail if you're not going with an in-mast. Just running clew and tack lines back to the cockpit?

Slab reefing on my 38' can get a bit physical (getting the dog bones around the boom horns). I have a hard time imagining doing the same process, safely, when short handed with non-pros, on such a large sail as your boat will have. But maybe I'm overthinking it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fallingeggs

DH, curious about your planned reefing for the mainsail if you're not going with an in-mast. Just running clew and tack lines back to the cockpit?

Slab reefing on my 38' can get a bit physical (getting the dog bones around the boom horns). I have a hard time imagining doing the same process, safely, when short handed with non-pros, on such a large sail as your boat will have. But maybe I'm overthinking it.

You're not at all over thinking it, at least not by my standards

I've worried about this myself, and still worry. Slab reefing and lazy jacks help a lot, but you have the hard choice of trying to deal with the proliferation of lines and all the friction of trying to lead it all back to the cockpit, on the one hand, or having to go to the mast, on the other. I think I will choose the latter, and try to design the deck arrangement to make going to the mast as safe as possible.

As far as size is concerned -- don't overestimate it. I want a very light, easily driven boat which doesn't require a lot of sail, and for these latitudes you don't want a lot of SA/D anyway. I don't think the sails will be much bigger than what I have now, and I also think about a ketch rig.

[Snowpetrel]

For what its worth the three large yachts I have sailed on all had slab reefing, and with proper batcars and big winches it was reasonably straightforward to reef.

The 60 footer had a two line system with everything leading back to the cockpit. Reefing was simple, but unreefing was hard work, and envolved having someone at the mast to overhaul the lines. If I went that way I would have another winch at the mast for the main halyard with something like a ronstan textile clutch so it could be released from the cockpit. That way it could be reefed from the cockpit and unreefed from the mast.

The other two (62 and 68 foot) had it all up near the mast, with 4 part tackles for the luff rather than dogbones and hooks. These worked very well.

[fallingeggs]

Any idea how the big racers (Vendee, Volvo) reef? Do they really have 3 or 4 sets of lines dangling from their luff and leech when under full sail?

[boatman61]

Worst I've sailed was an old Americas Cup boat from the 80's someone bought with the idea of converting her to a live aboard.. sexy as hell to look at.
I was hired to take her from Sweden to Florida..
The October sail to the Kiel Canal and through was enough to tell me she would not survive an Atlantic crossing.. she went from Holland to Ft Lauderdale on a Seven Sea's ship instead..
The next worst was a Bruce Roberts where for sme obscure reason the builder had intalled 3200litres of tankage along the hulls at the waterline and above making her top heavy and she rolled like a pig.. all the way across the Pacific.
The sweetest was a Laurent Giles 62ft Pilot House bilge keeler.. all the heavy stuff at waterline and below.. did 5kts in a 10kt breeze.. took her from SXM to E Spain.
Definitely a boat I would choose over anything talked about so far.
Oh.. andaa mere 6ft draft..

[captprogreso]

the Garcia exploration 52 see at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrGSZNHR-as

almost everithing minus the tender opening