The Perfect 60' to 65' Cruising Boat

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ReefRaff

Hi Dockhead,
I've been lazily following this thread and re-read your original (and sensational, mind you) 25-point post of essential qualities of the ideal 60-plus cruiser and I keep on thinking that a fair amount of these qualities, excepting sailing performance I assume, may be found in the some of the dutch-built motorsailers(?) such as those built by Kompier or the De Vries designs. I don't know much about them except I do like their looks and specs and I have read that they are extremely robust, go-anywhere vessels...with a foredeck resembling a trawler housing massive deck gear, safety rails etc. I also hear that they can even accomodate a sceptical landlubber missus... Here is one Kompier currently advertised that may meet most of the essential points... I would be keen to hearyour thoughts on this - https://www.doevemakelaar.nl/en/schi...kotter-49-gsak - I have found zero information on their sailability and performance upwind but their hull does not indicate a good result in this area at least.
Cheers,
ReefRaff

I know and LOVE these vessels! They are even better in person than in the photos.

Almost perfect for me, but unfortunately, really excellent sailing qualities is at the top of my list, so disqualifies these.

[Joli]

14. Hull form should be oriented to performance with bulb keel and spade rudder or at least partial skeg rudder, but should not be too beamy, and should not have the fat stern which many modern boats now have. I imagine something like my hull, except 10 feet longer, without any increase in beam (I’m 54 feet on deck and 16 foot beam). Should be an easily driven, somewhat narrow, fast shape. Forefoot not too flat to avoid pounding. Should have nice spring to its sheer and a highish bow for a dry deck, but without excessive freeboard midships. Keel should be deep enough for really good upwind performance (about which more below) – up to maybe 2.80. Keel should be lead, and hull should be fully cored with encapsulated balsa blocks and skinned with Twaron or Kevlar, for very, very high strength, impact resistance, and lightness, for performance and strength. I imagine an easily driven hull with D/L ratio of around 200. Structure should be very massive with particular attention paid to chainplates and bulkheads.

These are our numbers, ex raceboat, designed in the 60's. If you want upwind speed they must be long with a good sized rig and weight, light boats will generally struggle upwind in a seaway. If you want speed downwind or reaching they must either plane or be big. If you want storage then they must be heavy or wide. There are no free lunches, it's all a compromise.

Basic measurements
LOA
61
LWL
55
Beam
15
Displacement
65000
Sail Area
2000


Displacement to LWL
174
Hull Speed
9.94
Sail Area to Displacement
19.79
LWL to Beam
3.67
Motion Comfort
47.59
Capsize Ratio
1.49
Sailing Category
racer
Pounds/Inch
2948

[JJ77]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cga9g7z4t_o

Somebodyelses ideal 60 footer,do not know about the exact sailing properties of this yacht but it is nevertheless impressive.Paradise 60,not too beamy either.






Cheers,
JJ

[JJ77]

From the same designer of the Paradise 60,bosgraaf yacht design;
http://www.bosgraafyachtdesign.com/s...s/stern60.html



Stern 60

[Wckoek]

Does anyone know how much building something like this cost?
Under a million, 700k too 800k?

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by JJ77

From the same designer of the Paradise 60,bosgraaf yacht design;
Bosgraaf Yacht Design, sailing yachts, Stern 60



Stern 60

That is an interesting boat. This is the "Pooh", build by Hennie Ten Dam. His project was the subject of series of articles in the Dutch sailing magazine "Zeilen". Ten Dam wanted to prove that you could build a 60 footer with the budget of a 40 footer.

He realy saved money on everything that was not essential. You will notive that the hull is not faired for example. He also did not completely fit out the insed. It's a 60 foot hull, but a 40 foot interior. When designing the rig he took in to account that mast and boom profiles get delivered in standard, fixed lengths, and made sure that he wasn't wasting anything. He scoured shipchandlers for second hand parts, and good deals.

The original aim was to build it for less than 200000 NLG, then the EURO came and the target was changed to 100000 euro, allowing him to go slightly over the original budget.

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

That is an interesting boat. This is the "Pooh", build by Hennie Ten Dam. His project was the subject of series of articles in the Dutch sailing magazine "Zeilen". Ten Dam wanted to prove that you could build a 60 footer with the budget of a 40 footer.

He realy saved money on everything that was not essential. You will notive that the hull is not faired for example. He also did not completely fit out the insed. It's a 60 foot hull, but a 40 foot interior. When designing the rig he took in to account that mast and boom profiles get delivered in standard, fixed lengths, and made sure that he wasn't wasting anything. He scoured shipchandlers for second hand parts, and good deals.

The original aim was to build it for less than 200000 NLG, then the EURO came and the target was changed to 100000 euro, allowing him to go slightly over the original budget.

That must be quite a challenging budget to achieve in Europe, probably achievable in in Asia much more easily. They used to build the Fife Sunshine for something under 900k back in the 2000s. There is someone build a 70 feet cold molded schooner I think 5 years ago in Philippines for around 800k also, so it might be achievable even today.

I like bare bones basic philosophy, but Pooh is too much basic for me, it hurts the original purpose or practicality when you set out to prove something within budget.

[Steadman Uhlich]

I have not had time to read all of the posts in this thread, so I don't know if this boat model has been mentioned yet or this video posted. I just saw this video today, and thought readers of this thread topic would find it interesting to see.

Here is the broker's description on Youtube:
"Published on Aug 15, 2017
The Paradise 60 Morning Star is the ultimate voyaging yacht designed for a couple to safely sail anywhere in the world on long offshore passages while spending extended periods of time at anchor in no-compromise comfort. At the time of her launch in May of 2015 she was appraised at over three million Euros! You can now own Morning Star for about half what it cost to build her! She is an incredible custom aluminum ocean sailing yacht is the inspiration of Carl and Sandra Soares. After years of defining their requirements and working through design concepts the final vessel was ultimately drawn by Peter Bosgraaf of Bosgraaf Yacht Designs in the Nederland’s. She was built by the famous Dutch builder of aluminum vessels, Jachtbouw Folmer, who has earned a good reputation for building the highest quality of custom aluminum yachts. Morning Star is a one of a kind blue water voyager that is an incredibly capable ocean going sailing machine of the highest order."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cga9g7z4t_o

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

I have not had time to read all of the posts in this thread, so I don't know if this boat model has been mentioned yet or this video posted. I just saw this video today, and thought readers of this thread topic would find it interesting to see.

Here is the broker's description on Youtube:
"Published on Aug 15, 2017
The Paradise 60 Morning Star is the ultimate voyaging yacht designed for a couple to safely sail anywhere in the world on long offshore passages while spending extended periods of time at anchor in no-compromise comfort. At the time of her launch in May of 2015 she was appraised at over three million Euros! You can now own Morning Star for about half what it cost to build her! She is an incredible custom aluminum ocean sailing yacht is the inspiration of Carl and Sandra Soares. After years of defining their requirements and working through design concepts the final vessel was ultimately drawn by Peter Bosgraaf of Bosgraaf Yacht Designs in the Nederland’s. She was built by the famous Dutch builder of aluminum vessels, Jachtbouw Folmer, who has earned a good reputation for building the highest quality of custom aluminum yachts. Morning Star is a one of a kind blue water voyager that is an incredibly capable ocean going sailing machine of the highest order."

Two years after launching the "ultimate voyaging yacht" the owners who paid €3M are selling her for half? Hmmmm....

[Steadman Uhlich]

Ooops!

I did not know JJ77 had already posted the video on the Paradise 60. Sorry about the multiple post. Just saw that now, and too late to delete. Anyway, the text describes something important in regards to the yacht…the price.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Ooops!

I did not know JJ77 had already posted the video on the Paradise 60. Sorry about the multiple post. Just saw that now, and too late to delete. Anyway, the text describes something important in regards to the yacht…the price.

But it doesn't explain why a boat that was so painstakingly designed is for sale so soon. The ad says it was years in the planning, but it seems it made a transatlantic from its home Dutch waters and was immediately put up for sale.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Wckoek

Does anyone know how much building something like this cost?
Under a million, 700k too 800k?

At what size? 65' figure $2.5-3.5m USD ready to go sailing. A lot depends on the quality of the fit out.

Building won't be much cheaper than a high quality one off build, unless you go pretty far down the scale towards workboat instead of yacht quality. But even then its going to be expensive.

[Eleuthera 2014]

For those of you with REAL moolah. The attached is the one I would love to own. Nothing compares IMO.

Please note she was built in 1985... look at the piccies of the engine bay. GORGEOUS.

1985 Jongert 20s Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

But it doesn't explain why a boat that was so painstakingly designed is for sale so soon. The ad says it was years in the planning, but it seems it made a transatlantic from its home Dutch waters and was immediately put up for sale.

Life priorities, situation, children, illness. We don't know, probably nothing to do with the boat.

The Jongert is 32 years old and build in Steel, I don't want to remove rust on a 60 feet boat.

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by Stumble

At what size? 65' figure $2.5-3.5m USD ready to go sailing. A lot depends on the quality of the fit out.

Building won't be much cheaper than a high quality one off build, unless you go pretty far down the scale towards workboat instead of yacht quality. But even then its going to be expensive.

Schooner Sunshine - Fife designed classic Auxilliary Gaff Schooner
Sunshine is build in steel at a cost of $800k 15 years ago, Lloyds standard, classic yacht quality finish.
I don't know if it is possible today.