Sloop to Ketch conversion

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by SailorBOI

Thanks - I have noticed some sloops have such plinths but can't be sure if they were forward or aft of the rudder. I guess I'm still hoping someone has a list of hulls with specs that show where and what bulkhead positions are available, plinths for mizzens, chain plate positions etc to accommodate whatever rigs are desired. I'm guessing the list is small as most manufacturers would make this choice for the buyers based on market demand.

On my boat the plinth is well forward of the rudderpost ( otherwise it would be a yawl )

Mainmast is in the same position in either variant.

I saw a ketch rigged Corsair ( little sister of my boat https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/i...tle=Corsair_36 ) a few years ago and was surprised how light the standing rigging on the mizzen was.

[MicHughV]

I find this an interesting thread. My first boat was a 38' ketch, but I often sailed without the mizzen up, and could not say, one way or another, whether this made much difference. Mizzen sails are generally not very big, and don't contribute that much to boat speed. A beam reach is probably it's best point of sail.

The mizzen suffers from not having a jib in front of it, to create a "slot to accelerate airflow over the main.

Try this.....sail your boat with just a mainsail up. You will be disappointed.

From my perspective, a ketch's advantage is twofold. #1. It reduces overall sail area, making sail handling easier. But a sloop converted to ketch will not have this advantage, as the sails will already be made to work as a sloop. #2. I find a ketch is easier to sail downwind using only a jib and mizzen, as the main is not up to blanket the jib.

Trying to convert a sloop to a ketch....in my humble opinion...would be a very expensive mistake.

I have seen ketches, like some yawls, which have the boom extend out over the transom, but this will require an extension to the hull to control the mizzen sheet.

I love the ketch rig myself, but one sees few of them around these days.

I don't see much point in opting for a ketch under 40'. 60' would be a different story.

[hpeer]

One year the boat next to me was a 50’er ketch that had the mizzen removed. Can not recall the make of boat, but a popular production boat. It had some issues, none as big as fitting a new mizzen to a sloop. So on that boat it would have been easy to refit a new mizzen.

I wonder how often the mizzen has been removed or simply never fitted. The owner was completely unaware, yet the unmistakable scars were right there.

But finding such boats would be tough. Sailboat data often makes note of boats that were offered with both rigs. Might be a place to start.

[MyCatLife]

Just buy this...

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...alkey-7910161/

And go cruising now!

[MicHughV]

Back in the day...I had this notion that with a ketch rig....I always had the option, that should I loose the main mast, I could likely jury rig the mizzen as a new main mast.

Never had to put this theory to the test though.

My primary reason for liking a ketch is that I think it looks awesome !

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Benz

I can't argue against a split sail plan being easier to trim for easy steering--my favorite is the schooner--and the best, easiest ride I ever had was in a 38' schooner with a full keel, which tracked well and steered light.

If you're on a budget, one of the Formosa-like leaky teakys that requires a ton of structural repair anyway might be found relatively cheap. Some of them were ketches to begin with.

Yeah, for a cruising boat with a split-rig I've been extoling the virtues of a staysail schooner for years, it mostly falls on the deaf ears of those who haven't the slightest idea of its versatility.
Yes again, there's an old CT-41 near me without masts that needs an interior rebuild as well.
The young couple who owns it have big dreams/little money and boats like that can sometimes be found almost for free.
Those hulls, though designed/built as ketches, could also be a schooner.
Of course, knowing that they could not afford a split-rig, I told them that the most inexpensive rig possible, (and dead simple,) was to turn the boat into a gaff rigged cutter, actually quite suitable for that hull.

[Dougtiff]

I owned a Rob 35 Yawl rigged, removed the Mizzen one time just to see the difference, the main boom is the same length for Sloop or Yawl, being in the Tropics the Mizzen mast made a perfect anchoring point for the awning and was a good position to lean against while taking a sight, consider adding a Yawl rig to a Sloop.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

the Mizzen mast made a perfect anchoring point for the awning and was a good position to lean against while taking a sight,

You forgot the most important part:
The best photo-ops are with you holding the wheel, with mizzen mast behind you, and your cap at rakish angle.

[CF32907]

Capt. Vince here,
Built 6 boats, refit 100's, marine surveyor over 20 years. You don't want to try this type of conversion. Changing a sail plan without engineering, you will not get insurance. To balance all of the points of pressure at present sail locations that would need altering and balancing out the new points of pressure would be a major undertaking for a sail plan that would be marginal, comparing it with a vessel with an under body that was designed for a ketch rig from the original design and lofting. The cost would probably amount to the vessels value.. You want a ketch, go out and buy a ketch, you will be money ahead and a lot less problems down the line. If you want to change a sloop, turn it into a cutter. You have sail diversity, at night short handed or in higher wind conditions, run with main and staysail. Good sail balance and self tending. I owned a 60' staysail schooner, never had to reef a sail, all done by sail management between five working sails. What was your take on the advantage of turning a sloop into a ketch. Normally people op for the ketch for the purpose of working with smaller sails. Doing what your wanting defeats that purpose, although you may find your marine architect may tell you that would be needed any way . If that the case, your new sail plan will definitely cost you more than the vessel is worth.
You plan on extended cruising, find a boat you like, love it and keep it in Bristol condition. Like a woman, don't try and change her, love her for what she is and keep her beautiful....
That's my advise.... Capt. Vince Rakstis, Ret.MS St.Petersburg, Fl.

[Hudson Force]

After a couple of sloops we cruised our ketch for 32 years. 'loved it, but not for the sense of the "ride", balance, or trim options. I simply needed to space for my family of four and the ability to cruise under 55' fixed bridges.

You can more easily convert a sloop to a cutter with a Solent rig and have more options for sail choices and downwind options.

[Jack Lahr]

This thread is a tribute to the joy of giving informed and valuable advice to an inexperienced sailor with a need for input

[lvictorlucas]

If you really want to do it I would just tilt the main mast forward and temporarily attach a mast aft and see if you like it. I would suggest getting a scrap mast or barrowing one one off a trailered boat. If you have a furling jib just remove it and install some hank on fitting on the jib you usually use.

[Chris Cringle]

Let's assume you need a tow truck. Would you buy a used school bus and convert it? If you needed a cutting horse, would you buy a cow and try to train it to herd cattle? No? Then why try to convert a boat into something she is not? If you want a ketch, buy a boat that was designed and built as a ketch. It is rediculous to say that there are no seaworthy, blue-water ketches.

[Kudu]

Just wait a little longer. Covid is now becoming endemic, and will have passed through Australia in two or three months. Those people who bought boats instead of travel or other pleasures will be selling, and a lot more boats, including cruising ketches, will become available.
WRT comfort at sea, IMHO it is more to do with the complete yacht design, ballast ratios, hull shape, keel length etc. Anecdotally, I have seen and heard many stories of ketches with mizzen mast removed.

Apart from any engineering considerations, a conversion sloop to ketch is going to cost more than the boat is worth. The rule of thumb for a new boat is that the mast, boom, rigging and sails cost is about 50% of the total cost. (Not counting fancy electronics.) Even more so for a ketch. A quick run of the numbers will quickly show the financial folly of a conversion.

[SailorBOI]

Originally Posted by Kudu

Just wait a little longer. Covid is now becoming endemic, and will have passed through Australia in two or three months. Those people who bought boats instead of travel or other pleasures will be selling, and a lot more boats, including cruising ketches, will become available.
WRT comfort at sea, IMHO it is more to do with the complete yacht design, ballast ratios, hull shape, keel length etc. Anecdotally, I have seen and heard many stories of ketches with mizzen mast removed.

Apart from any engineering considerations, a conversion sloop to ketch is going to cost more than the boat is worth. The rule of thumb for a new boat is that the mast, boom, rigging and sails cost is about 50% of the total cost. (Not counting fancy electronics.) Even more so for a ketch. A quick run of the numbers will quickly show the financial folly of a conversion.

Thank you Kudu for your succinct reply. Indeed I hope more will become available to evaluate. I had assumed rigging/sails etc would be around 40% the cost. The entire premise of my original post was that if I came across a sloop hull that was originally designed to accommodate a ketch rig and the asking price reflected the need to replace all rigging/sails etc, then what else remained may be a viable option if it means a yacht that isn't 50+ years old (I don't have much more than $200k to spend). But as you say, the engineering (bulkheads/compression post, chain plates, verifying calculations, certification for insurance etc likely puts this idea to rest. I can afford to wait (hope?) that something suitable is advertised this year.