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Old 22-01-2022, 17:47   #31
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

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Originally Posted by SailorBOI View Post
Thanks for mentioning this. I've been meaning to ask if, with the rudder post being forward of the mizzen.... can you actually steer a yawl via the mizzen sail if the rudder broke? I had to do this at 2am on a ketch in the Tasman once and was surprised and how effective it was. But on a yawl?
You can steer any boat by dragging a Drogue behind it on one side or the other.
But you must balance the boat, and watch your course.
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Old 22-01-2022, 17:54   #32
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

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Capt. Vince here,
Built 6 boats, refit 100's, marine surveyor over 20 years. You don't want to try this type of conversion. Changing a sail plan without engineering, you will not get insurance. To balance all of the points of pressure at present sail locations that would need altering and balancing out the new points of pressure would be a major undertaking for a sail plan that would be marginal, comparing it with a vessel with an under body that was designed for a ketch rig from the original design and lofting. The cost would probably amount to the vessels value.. You want a ketch, go out and buy a ketch, you will be money ahead and a lot less problems down the line. If you want to change a sloop, turn it into a cutter. You have sail diversity, at night short handed or in higher wind conditions, run with main and staysail. Good sail balance and self tending. I owned a 60' staysail schooner, never had to reef a sail, all done by sail management between five working sails. What was your take on the advantage of turning a sloop into a ketch. Normally people op for the ketch for the purpose of working with smaller sails. Doing what your wanting defeats that purpose, although you may find your marine architect may tell you that would be needed any way . If that the case, your new sail plan will definitely cost you more than the vessel is worth.
You plan on extended cruising, find a boat you like, love it and keep it in Bristol condition. Like a woman, don't try and change her, love her for what she is and keep her beautiful....
That's my advise.... Capt. Vince Rakstis, Ret.MS St.Petersburg, Fl.
Ketch owner here, better for the short handed sailor, stable.
Comfortable.
What is said up above by Capt. Vince Rakstis is true.
Now,
Drawbacks, a little slower to wind.
The Envy of sloop owners

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Old 22-01-2022, 18:19   #33
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

Ever consider the yawl? much less to modify.
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Old 22-01-2022, 18:28   #34
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

Converting a Sloop to Ketch, well now that sounds like a Ketch-22:

NOUN

a dilemma or difficult circumstance from which there is no escape because of mutually conflicting or dependent conditions.

Truly there are quite a few ketches available on the market which one could purchase a go sailing and enjoy your passion, instead of spending years effort and loads of money on an iffy proposition of conversion. Life is too short to get hung up on doing lots of boat work.

Don't try to turn a Chevy into a Ferrari.
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Old 22-01-2022, 18:36   #35
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

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Originally Posted by SailorBOI View Post
I do wonder how many of us have actually enjoyed the sleep they get on a well-balanced ketch on an ocean passage. I feel fortunate that I have.... and then stepped aboard a sloop for a two day passage - couldn't sleep very well at all no matter which bunk I migrated to.

I highly doubt the ketch rig is any different other than a little easier to balance during different conditions. You could only do a Ketch to Sloop comparison if it were two identical boats in the same conditions. A Ketch with give you more options but either set up correctly should be close to identical in the area of comfort.



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The seakindly-ness of the sloop vs ketch might have more to do with hull shape than rig. It's the hull, after all, that's cleaving the water and getting tossed around.
I can't argue against a split sail plan being easier to trim for easy steering--my favorite is the schooner--and the best, easiest ride I ever had was in a 38' schooner with a full keel, which tracked well and steered light. Predictably, the squirreliest ride ever was in a Santa Cruz 70: a fin keel/spade rudder job that pounded like the devil and required endless helming.
Given the structural difficulties in converting a rig, especially on something that big, you might be better off saving up for an Amel, which I believe still has a ketch in production.
If you're on a budget, one of the Formosa-like leaky teakys that requires a ton of structural repair anyway might be found relatively cheap. Some of them were ketches to begin with.
I agree 100%
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Old 23-01-2022, 05:40   #36
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

There are ketches out there for sale. You just have to be patient and willing to travel around to look at the boats.

I would suspect ketches sell for less than standard sloop rigs (or the beloved cutter rigs) due to the fact they are more complicated, more expensive to maintain (addl mast/sail/rigging), harder to single-hand and have cluttered cockpits due the second mast being in the way.

They are pretty however and give you more options for setting up / balancing the sails.

The second mast does make a great place to put the radar/ antennas and the boom can act as a cargo boom.

It would be a monumental task to convert a non-ketch to a ketch.

Cheers.
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Old 23-01-2022, 06:29   #37
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pirate Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

Reckon they likely balance out.. shorter masts, rigging, same sail area overall.. as for being harder to single hand.. Where did you pluck that from.???
As for cheaper to buy.. that's debatable..

https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat...or-sale/624163


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Old 23-01-2022, 06:56   #38
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

Economical sloop to ketch conversion:

Step 1) Sell your sloop
Step 2) Buy a ketch
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Old 23-01-2022, 19:48   #39
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

Interested in what features of the ketches you've seen on the market, that make them unsuitable for crossing an ocean in the normal areas of the world where people go cruising (not high latitude or out of season). As the owner and active sailor of a ketch for 27 years I have my own opinions which I think tend to the conservative side regarding safety, but I believe you could find many ketch designs that are perfectly safe for normal ocean crossings.

There is an important point to make however. Many otherwise seaworthy vessels do need upgrades of the gear delivered with the original boat from the manufacturer. Things like better ports, hatches, companionway closures, all of which are fairly easily to upgrade at reasonable cost.
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Old 23-01-2022, 20:04   #40
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

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After a couple of sloops we cruised our ketch for 32 years. 'loved it, but not for the sense of the "ride", balance, or trim options. I simply needed to space for my family of four and the ability to cruise under 55' fixed bridges.

You can more easily convert a sloop to a cutter with a Solent rig and have more options for sail choices and downwind options.

You can just as easily add the Solent stay to any ketch - it's the exact same process in either case, involving adding the stay attachment just below the headstay on the mast and reinforcing the attachment point on the deck a few feet aft of the headstay, and using a highfield lever to make it detachable. I find it real handy in winds too strong for the big genoa where partially furled it has horrible shape.
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Old 28-01-2022, 08:17   #41
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

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There does not appear to be much online about this, especially what matters below the waterline. I'm in the market for a 45' to 60' ketch but there is not much I'd consider truly worthy of ocean passages. However, some sloops in this range may convert to ketch fairly easily if I could find out what keel and rudder shape and configuration is required to accommodate the above-water-line changes. Does anyone have any specifics on what to look for, or even some examples? I know Passport/Petersens did ketch and sloop rig on the same hulls for a number of years and there are other examples. However, I'd like to be able to look at the shape of a sloop hull and determine if it could be converted to ketch before then considering any challenges above the waterline. This would increase the likelihood of finding a suitable "bluewater" ketch for my family. Thanks in advance for any wisdoms or perspective on this.
It would be far more efficient and cost effective to upgrade your sail inventory. Sloops are simple and with a good reefable main and a genoa that can also be reefed. Add a storm sail and you are good to go?
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Old 28-01-2022, 09:01   #42
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

Been designing boats for 60 years. Built a few of them. Forget trying to convert a boat designed to be a sloop into a ketch. Or a cutter, for that matter. The ketch would require placement of a mizzenmast and, possibly, relocation of the mainmast. The cutter would certainly require the relocation of the mainmast. In any case, the hull is probably not built to accommodate the stresses imposed by such changes to the rig. In a wooden boat, you might be able to get away with it, but unless you know what you’re doing, it would not be feasible, and would possibly be dangerous. By the way, forget the idea of searching for a “sloop Hull”. There is no such thing. Keep looking for a ketch that was designed and built to be a ketch.
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Old 28-01-2022, 09:36   #43
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

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Originally Posted by Happ View Post
It would be far more efficient and cost effective to upgrade your sail inventory. Sloops are simple and with a good reefable main and a genoa that can also be reefed. Add a storm sail and you are good to go?

Well said...I have had an Ingrid 38 Cutter/Ketch and it was a maze of wires from standing rigging, lots of lines and turning blocks. It was a pain. I have a Pearson sloop and a Westsail cutter. I prefer the sloop for it's simplicity. The sloop cam with a "slutter" rig as an addition. To me just another pain in the neck but it came with the boat. I'm thinking I'll probably get rid of it.
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Old 28-01-2022, 14:09   #44
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

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Originally Posted by Rainbow48 View Post
Been designing boats for 60 years. Built a few of them. Forget trying to convert a boat designed to be a sloop into a ketch. Or a cutter, for that matter. The ketch would require placement of a mizzenmast and, possibly, relocation of the mainmast. The cutter would certainly require the relocation of the mainmast. In any case, the hull is probably not built to accommodate the stresses imposed by such changes to the rig. In a wooden boat, you might be able to get away with it, but unless you know what you’re doing, it would not be feasible, and would possibly be dangerous. By the way, forget the idea of searching for a “sloop Hull”. There is no such thing. Keep looking for a ketch that was designed and built to be a ketch.
Sorry, I do not see the need to relocate a sloops mainmast to add a Solent Stay, thus rigging as a cutter.

Also, a sloop hull is more likely to be a fin or modified keel design.
Most Ketch rigged vessels have a long or modified keel design, but have not seen a fin keeled ketch yet.

As most ketch rigged boats have a mainmast placed forward of the center of balance, to compensate for the spreading out of the sail plan.
As well shorter mast heights.
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Old 28-01-2022, 14:22   #45
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Re: Sloop to Ketch conversion

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Originally Posted by waterman46 View Post
You can just as easily add the Solent stay to any ketch - it's the exact same process in either case, involving adding the stay attachment just below the headstay on the mast and reinforcing the attachment point on the deck a few feet aft of the headstay, and using a highfield lever to make it detachable. I find it real handy in winds too strong for the big genoa where partially furled it has horrible shape.
If you have the room.
There's is not enough to room forward of the mainmast on my vessel to mount a Solent Stay so It'd be useless there. And would be a pain to tack or Gybe it.

My mainmast has two tracks one for a staysail and one for the mainsail, room is built in for that design.

My headstay runs to the end of the bowsprit.
This allows for a proper slot.
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