Rugged High Latitude Boats?

[northwestsailor]

I saw Quilak several times in Tromsø last summer. I am sure it is very luxurious but I prefer what I have for polar work.

[Psy at SEA]

Thierry Dubois ~ "La Louise"


Arctic Northwest Passage: S/V La LOUISE for Arctic Adventures - her pictures speak thousands of words

La Louise - Le Bateau

Possibly not what you are looking for; but inmo beautiful and an easy boat to work.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Erik de Jong

. . . I can probably come up with another 100 points that will make your life easier once in the ice. A lot of those I found out myself the hard way during 22 years of sailing in the high and extreme latitudes.

I think we would all be very interested to hear them!

[victor15]

For rugged high latitude boat there are good few. All pending its use. For just few outings specification doesn't have to be very stringent. For those requiring more stringent criteria let me quote few: Vagabond, Muktuk, Northabout by Gilbert Caroff-Duflo, Damien II, Reinke 16 M Ice, Garcia Exploration 52. The all have lifting keel very essential primarily in Arctic.
To dwell upon 50 ton boat we all forgot to have licensed Ice Pilot on board and it is compulsory in Canadian Arctic at present. So stay away from that size.
I rather disagree with Erik de Jong about twin propellers & rudders. Spare rudder can be mounted off transom all the time just lifted. Having twin engines is always preferential. See Salty whom Bagheera & Snow Dragon II followed in 2015 Northwest Passage. Salty is also good example for being Bruce Roberts 65 now for sale in Seward. Also having Sigma Drive coupling adds prolonged reliability to the drive train and not much worry about breaking engine mounts. Nobody mentioned about proper insulation. Humidity inside Polar boats is immense and ventilation is essential.
Qilak looks somehow impressive while not proven yet.
I would never dispose Dykstra from my vocabulary while Dick Koopmans might be preferential. They both work together anyway.
There will be probably another two seasons till any small craft will enter at least Canadian Arctic as it is now off limits. Transient people are not welcome there unfortunately due to COVID-19.
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[Erik de Jong]

Originally Posted by victor15

I rather disagree with Erik de Jong about twin propellers & rudders. Having twin engines is always preferential. See Salty whom Bagheera & Snow Dragon II followed in 2015 Northwest Passage.

Interesting that you bring this up actually. Salty was following us through the North West Passage as they had no prior experience in operating a boat in ice and wanted to learn from our experience. Salty had twin engine and twin propeller. They were severely limited in the ice density they could go through as the props are much further outboard and where therefore continuously hit by ice flows passing by. We had to wait often for them as they needed to use ice pokes to keep the propellers free of ice. Dual props and dual rudders have in my opinion no place on an ice going boat and this is based on observations during a mere hundred thousand miles in those conditions. I did not say anything about twin engines though, I have no objection against those, to the contrary!

Both Dijkstra en Koopmas are personal friend as well as colleagues of mine (I'm a yacht designer by trade) and I have both in very high regard. But as far as I know they have never worked together.

[Erik de Jong]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think we would all be very interested to hear them!

I have some deadlines to meet right now, but I will sit down and make a list for you if you consider that helpful.

[hpeer]

Erik,

I met you in Halifax some years ago and you were kind enough to show me around your Bagherra. Very well thought out, especially at such a young age.

I recall reading about the Stephenson Canadian Arctic Expedition, (IIRC) one of the vessels had twin engines and rudders and experienced the same faults you describe.

I also recall reading or another expedition, along the Russian coat, where they had some very odd layering of water, temperature layering I think, but may have been salinity. Anyway it rendered the vessel almost motionless. The explanation was all the prop energy was absorbed in mixing the layers. Have you heard or or experienced this?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Erik de Jong

I have some deadlines to meet right now, but I will sit down and make a list for you if you consider that helpful.

Very much so, thank you!

[cascott]

Great thread, I have really enjoyed reading this. I will be in the market for a sailboat for use primarily in Prince William Sound in Alaska in a couple of years so I have also been keenly interested in the different options of pilothouse boats that are available.

Have you looked into the SV Novara, a Bestevaer 60C? It is currently for sale and seems to meet all your requirements at a relatively low price point.

From the website:

"She was built by Damstra in Holland as a "scientific research vessel" with the focus on high latitude cruising and her ice strengthened hull was built to exceedingly high construction standards with emphasis placed on safety, comfort, reliability and ease of operation by a husband and wife or otherwise short-handed crew.

She is well suited for ocean voyaging with her strongly built all aluminum construction, 40 mm in bow stem area, 15 mm at keel stem base plating, 10 mm keel sides, 8 mm topsides, 6 mm deck plating, double spaced ribs and stringers for extra strength she is a true ICEBREAKER!

Double bottom for much of the boat’s length (fuel, water, gray water, and ballast tanks). Five separate watertight compartments (aft storage areas, engine room, main living quarters, tool room, forepeak), watertight bulkheads, inside/outside steering stations, high-strength thermopane raised salon windows."

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...r-60c-3590983/

https://www.sy-novara.com/

The boat has already completed a trip through the Northwest Passage as well as sailed to Antarctica. Am I missing something here?

Also, does anyone have any opinions on Puffin or Noordkaper boats? They lack the watertight compartments that OP is looking for and their weight probably means that they will not sail all that quickly, but they seem to be good bluewater pilothouse boats otherwise.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...assic-3489934/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...er-66-3665545/
​

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Erik de Jong

I have some deadlines to meet right now, but I will sit down and make a list for you if you consider that helpful.

Yes, very much so, thank you!

[frederic_b]

Originally Posted by real_goat

“(...) the cost can range from 250,000 euros to 1,700,000.00 euros plus. ”
Paradise 60 :: Paradise Yachts

Given the specs fitting into it (carbon rigging ) the operating word here likely to be "plus" :-)

[frederic_b]

Originally Posted by real_goat

“(...) the cost can range from 250,000 euros to 1,700,000.00 euros plus. ”
Paradise 60 :: Paradise Yachts

Given the specs fitting into it (carbon rigging ) the operating word here likely to be "plus" :-)

[frederic_b]

Originally Posted by cascott

Also, does anyone have any opinions on Puffin or Noordkaper boats? They lack the watertight compartments that OP is looking for and their weight probably means that they will not sail all that quickly, but they seem to be good bluewater pilothouse boats otherwise.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...assic-3489934/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...er-66-3665545/
​

Well, if we hadn't have an (experienced) inclination toward a cat, Puffin and Bestevaer/KM were very much the short list.
We loved the layout (mostly design-to-specs with KM) and the sturdiness.
Looking for 3 cabins + 1 optional while not in cold conditions, it was fitting the requirements.

We're not putting race-like performance on the top of the criterias, but KM's sail area/weight ratio on a 56 feet wasn't at all a dealbreaker, apparently better than on a Boreal 55 and on a Garcia Explorer 52.

BTW -- I have a side question.
We've initiated the build-process of a 'high latitude compliant boat' -- mean as much compliant as possible, despite some unconventional choices (I know this is a very demanding conversational place).

We do plan to spend a few years in the north of Norway, Iceland, some Greenland, some Patagonia etc, incuding wintering in confort onboard ... BUT we plan as well some less harsh conditions as well along the planned ownership of the boat.
And given the investment, both in building/debuging time and money, I'm unsure we'll want to change the boat when we sail from Patagonia to the Marquises, for instance.
So the question is : how specialized should a 'high latitude compliant boat' be ? (that's for the previous "does it all good at nothing comment" .... demanding place :-)

[noelex 77]

All boats are compromises, but there is no great problem making a boat that is excellent for both cold and hot climates. Mostly it is about fitting extra features that may not be otherwise needed.

For example, our boat has a stern swim platform that folds down and generous opening hatch area. Both of these features could be left off a boat designed just for high latitudes, but other than the cost these features do not cause any drawbacks.

Many features such as thick insulation make the boat better for both hot and cold conditions.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

. . . For example, our boat has a stern swim platform that folds down and generous opening hatch area. Both of these features could be left off a boat designed just for high latitudes, . . .

I wouldn't leave them off. We had some days in Greenland near +20; it's much warmer inland. It's great to be able to open the boat up.


And a swim platform is useful for lots of purposes besides swimming in tropical seas. I bathed every day on or from my own swim platform, in the Arctic.