Old vs. New Style Cruisers

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I prefer older style hulls. Keel laminated as part of the hull.


That's why keels fall off brand new Ericsons (was it Ericson?) That's why rudders fail or bend. That's why interiors and engine beds come loose from the hull after hitting a rock, when old boats just carried on..



For local sailing, none of this matters though.

Wasn't Ericson. They eventually continued under Pacific Seacraft for a few years using the same grid, layup, and keel bolt layouts. But we had three different ones, very strong built.

[nightowle]

Maybe add the Island Packet as a reasonable compromise between the two crafts originally mentioned by the OP.

[moseriw]

As long as it has not got a long keel it is not a bluewater cruiser ;-) and one should avoid to buy new things but repair old ones. For natures sake!

Island Packet or any Taiwan Clipper would do it for me. < 1985 means hull thinkness 25 mm later 5 mm. Your decision is?

[Searles]

Having assembled a number of French and European production yachts ,and later re fastened chain plates , bulkheads ,mast steps ,stanchions etc,stoves, that self launch ,in reasonable conditions ,boat for dollar the mk 2 Catalina’s 42 and the 38 ,although now over 20 yrs old ,are still a great bang for your buck ,I will stick with my Perry Chevy lee 48,but mantainence on going ,an 83 build ,Still with teak decks ,no leaks no rot ,a full rig cutter .⛵️⚓️

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I prefer older style hulls.

... You don't take too much of what is learned in Formula One racing and apply it to everyday drivers. A little goes a long way...

You might be surprised.

From all-wheel drive, to active suspension, and many other things in between, the technologies innovated in F1 [& other motorsport], more often than not, find their way into the vehicles we drive.
Semi-automatic gears, developed for the Porsche 962, in 1984. Enabling clutch-less shifting, it was the progenitor of the paddle gears that are now used in F1.
Disc brakes were originally premiered, by Porsche, for the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Disc brakes began infiltrating production cars, in the 1980s. Road cars are now making an F1-inspired switch, from steel disc rotors, to lighter, more heat-resistant ceramic versions. Of course, F1 cars remain a lap ahead, in terms of tech, and have mostly already moved on to using carbon fibre.
Carbon fibre [& carbon fibre reinforced plastic] chassis/bodies are especially popular in electric vehicles, such as the BMWi3, where weight management is important, to offset the bulk of their batteries.
The rear-view mirror originated in 1950s motor racing.
AWD (All-wheel drive) was originally introduced, by the Audi rally team, and rapidly diffused into their game-changing Quattro road car, in 1980. AWD is now de riguer on the likes of the Suzuki SX4, Subaru Impreza, and Nissan Juke.
Joypad steering wheels. These days, the average F1 steering wheel has more buttons than a laptop keyboard. Each of these has a function essential to maximising performance.
The various buttons on the steering wheel of, say, the Ford Ka fulfill somewhat more pedestrian functions, mostly focused on controlling the media player and enabling hands-free phone calls. But by centring these functions in the driver's eye-line, button steering wheels aid safety alongside convenience.
Active suspension doesn't take any messing from uneven surfaces, and actively raises and lowers the chassis, at each wheel, to ensure better handling, improved traction, and a smooth ride for the driver. Early active suspension simply adjusted the stiffness of the shocks, but F1 took this to extremes, embedding sensors throughout the car, to feed data into an onboard computer. Toyota were the first marque to take the technology to the road, with the 1983 Soarer, and such roadsters as the Citroën Xantia, and Volvo S60R.
Of course, the F1 power unit itself is, without doubt, the most efficient engine on the planet. Compare the latest V6 turbo-hybrid power unit, to the normally aspirated V8, used up to 2013: 20% more power, and yet it produces 26% less in the way of CO2 emissions. , F1 engines have become 10% more efficient in six years, such is the rapid pace of development. In the V8 era, thermal efficiency peaked at 29%. With the introduction of the V6 turbo-hybrids, in 2014, that figure leapt, almost immediately, to around 40% - and it now stands at over 50%.

Aside from cars, there are also quite a few examples of F1 technology being used in everyday life.
Hospitals are utilising McLaren’s systems to monitor patients’ data, while sensors are also being placed on surgeons to provide specific feedback, as they work inside the operating theatre.
The concepts and technology, that underpin various teams’ pit-stop efficiency, is also being harnessed in manufacturing plants, to improve both the quality, and the volume of production, as well as in medical facilities to enhance communication among staff members.
The expertise of F1 teams, in aerodynamics and carbon fibre technology, has seen F1 engineering being called upon, in multiple other sports, including sailing, bobsleigh and cycling.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by nightowle

Maybe add the Island Packet as a reasonable compromise between the two crafts originally mentioned by the OP.

I'd consider that further in the traditional direction than the PS 40, not an in between. The Island Packet is a slightly modernized full keel, the Pacific Seacraft is a fin keel with a skeg hung rudder.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by moseriw

As long as it has not got a long keel it is not a bluewater cruiser ;-) and one should avoid to buy new things but repair old ones. For natures sake!

Island Packet or any Taiwan Clipper would do it for me. &lt; 1985 means hull thinkness 25 mm later 5 mm. Your decision is?

So much nonsense in so few lines of text

[rotrax]

Originally Posted by GordMay

You might be surprised.


Semi-automatic gears, developed for the Porsche 962, in 1984. Enabling clutch-less shifting, it was the progenitor of the paddle gears that are now used in F1.



Disc brakes were originally premiered, by Porsche, for the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Disc brakes began infiltrating production cars, in the 1980s. Road cars are now making an F1-inspired switch, from steel disc rotors, to lighter, more heat-resistant ceramic versions. Of course, F1 cars remain a lap ahead, in terms of tech, and have mostly already moved on to using carbon fibre.

Here in the UK, late 1950's we had a production car with an electicaly operated clutch worked by a button on the gear lever and a torque converter.
Worked OK by the standards of the time but in reallity it was the worse of both worlds. Standard 'Standrive' IIRC.





Jaguar AFAIK were the first to use disc brakes at Le Mans on the 1952 'C' type. On all four wheels.

They fitted Dunlop Disc Brakes on many of their road cars in the late 50's early 60's. I serviced many Jaguar cars with these little round Dunlop pads.
In Europe disc brakes were common by the end of the sixties. Porche, great innovators as they are, were late to the party.



Dr. Lanchester had disc brakes working in 1902 on his cars. Due to the materials of the day they were unsuccessful.

[dbcreed]

I started sailing (beyond dinghies/Hobies) for 5 years in a 1981 Catalina 27. I now sail my 1975 Bristol 27. With the Catalina, I had the task of repairing many things that broke from original design/craftsmanship issues. With the Bristol, I've had the pleasure of restoring water-leak-induced bulkhead rot and, along the way, experiencing the joy of witnessing sturdy construction throughout. Yes, the full-keel Bristol is a tad slower than the fin-keel Catalina, but everything about her is much more graceful.


My two boats were never intended to be the same. The Catalina is fine for weekend excursions and protected coastal cruising, and offshore work was never intended. I feel my Bristol will watch out for me almost anywhere I show a modicum of sense. I believe you've proposed a comparison that's very similar to what I've lived.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by rotrax

... Jaguar AFAIK were the first to use disc brakes at Le Mans on the 1952 1953 'C' type. On all four wheels.

They fitted Dunlop Disc Brakes on many of their road cars in the late 50's early 60's. I serviced many Jaguar cars with these little round Dunlop pads.
In Europe disc brakes were common by the end of the sixties. Porche, great innovators as they are, were late to the party.

Dr. Lanchester had disc brakes working in 1902 on his cars. Due to the materials of the day they were unsuccessful.

I stand corrected:
In 1946 the Dunlop Rim and Wheel Company took out Patent No: 688382 – a new design, which gave them a lead with disc brakes in the automotive industry.
On 29 June 1952 Stirling Moss drove Tommy Wisdom’s XKC 005 to win at Reims, at an average speed of 98.18 mph (158.00 km/hr). This was the first time an international motor race had been won by a car fitted with disc brakes. When Dunlop examined the brake pads after the race they found that they had worn down considerably and they reported that pads made to the same specification would not last the 24-hours at Le Mans. The brake pads could not be changed quickly during a pit stop so Dunlop had to develop pads thick enough to last the entire 24 hour race.

Jaguar made the C-types lighter and fitted the improved disc brakes for the 1953 Le Mans race. Tony Rolt and co-driver Duncan Hamilton won the race at an average speed of 105.85 mph (170.34 km/hr) with Stirling Moss and Peter Walker coming second.
It was Jaguar’s stunning Le Mans victory with the C-type in ’53 that the technology really gained momentum.
➥ https://www.jaguarheritage.com/jagua...g/disc-brakes/

So who had disc brakes first? Well, it's clear to see that the Citroën DS was the first volume-production car so equipped, while Triumph's TR3 was the first volume-production sports car, and Jaguar the first racecar builder.
➥ https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...kes-really-was

[rotrax]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I stand corrected:
In 1946 the Dunlop Rim and Wheel Company took out Patent No: 688382 – a new design, which gave them a lead with disc brakes in the automotive industry.
On 29 June 1952 Stirling Moss drove Tommy Wisdom’s XKC 005 to win at Reims, at an average speed of 98.18 mph (158.00 km/hr). This was the first time an international motor race had been won by a car fitted with disc brakes. When Dunlop examined the brake pads after the race they found that they had worn down considerably and they reported that pads made to the same specification would not last the 24-hours at Le Mans. The brake pads could not be changed quickly during a pit stop so Dunlop had to develop pads thick enough to last the entire 24 hour race.

Jaguar made the C-types lighter and fitted the improved disc brakes for the 1953 Le Mans race. Tony Rolt and co-driver Duncan Hamilton won the race at an average speed of 105.85 mph (170.34 km/hr) with Stirling Moss and Peter Walker coming second.
It was Jaguar’s stunning Le Mans victory with the C-type in ’53 that the technology really gained momentum.
➥ https://www.jaguarheritage.com/jagua...g/disc-brakes/

So who had disc brakes first? Well, it's clear to see that the Citroën DS was the first volume-production car so equipped, while Triumph's TR3 was the first volume-production sports car, and Jaguar the first racecar builder.
➥ https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...kes-really-was

The first user has to be Lanchester in 1902. Jaguar and Citroen were at it together, but Citroen built the first production disc brake cars as you say. Great innovators Citroen.



Mk1 jaguars could be retro fitted with disc brakes in '58, OE fit from '59.

[goboatingnow]

The point being that just like f1 tech trickling down the cats, modern ocean racing tech is equally informing cruising design and systems.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The PS40 will likely carry more weight without issue, but that only matters if you don't run out of space first. The Jeanneau is a significantly larger boat by volume.

I may be too prejudiced to respond, but what the heck! All this based on one trip from Seattle to La Paz.

We live aboard and do carry a lot of weight easily, but yes, storage is an issue, including fuel. Our tank is only 70 gal. We were in the slings last summer at @ 28,500 lbs.

On the way down from Washington to SF, the shorter steeper seas did make the stern slew around quite a bit making it difficult for the windvane to hold course. We took small amounts of water over the stern only twice. Seas were @ 4 to 6 ft but the period was about the same; 4 to 6 seconds. Past SF the period lengthened to 8 to 12 seconds and the wave height fell to @ 3 to 5 ft. The winds ranged from 8 to 10 (when sailing) to 32 and they were never an issue; plenty of ways to deal with that - sea state was the main issue

Crew slept comfortably below. 1 on each settee and one in the starboard quarterberth. My wife cooked in the kitchen without an issue.

We sailed 90% of the way from San Diego to Cabo San Lucas mostly just off downwind in a very relaxed sail.

No crew got injured, no emergencies, and nothing broke on the boat. Of the 2 boats in the OP’s original post, I’ll stick with my PS40

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen

I may be too prejudiced to respond, but what the heck! All this based on one trip from Seattle to La Paz.

FWIW, I wasn't saying that the smaller volume of the PS40 is a bad thing or anything. Just that more weight capacity isn't inherently an advantage for one boat over another. One may be limited in what you can carry by weight, but another may run out of space for stuff with weight capacity left to spare.

[Tonali99]

All things aside ... I DO NOT like plastic.