Old vs. New Style Cruisers

[wannago]

I've never been on one of them pacific seacraft. (I think the heaviest thing I've sailed in recent memory was a ~35ft Island Packet.)


But I have recently done a couple days on a very similar Jeanneau, Autumn in the Puget Sound.


Typical wind condition around here that time of year were light. We were with a group of newer boats, mostly lightweight'ish (a few catalinas and similar, 30-45 feet). We spent the most time under sail because we were often the only boat able to move without cranking up the diesel.


There were all kinda other things I didn't like about the boat, mostly I decided I'm just too big for it (bunks not long enough, walls on other side of the head were too close to, um, reach back.., back ache from hunching over just a little too much for too long cooking and cleaning dishes).


For most people who are buying a boat to use in a similarly sheltered area, buy a light boat, or just get a trawler, there's very often not enough wind to move any of those traditional Water boats">blue water boats under sail.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by ricwoz

Are boats more like guitars (where old designs like the Les Paul and Telecaster are still favored by most players over new designs)\.

Tele.

Don't get me started.

PS: Page played a Tele on "Stairway to Heaven."

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

You have picked 2 boats that are on the extreme end. Slow blue water sailor / Dock Condo. Happiness is in the center not on the extremes for most people.

My feeling is bigger is better if you can afford it. A stout(strong?) boat does not have to be slow.

I drive an Beneteau Idylle 51/1550. A well built strong and safe blue water cruiser that is very fast.

It has a long modified fin that draws 6'4 but is about 12 ft on the cord. Tracks well but without the lack of performance of the PS.

The SO is not going to track well. It has a very short cord on the keel and when it crests the waves it will not like to stay very strait without a lot of work on the part of the helmsman or the autohelm

The B Idylle has lots of hand holds, you can move anywhere in the boat with easy in any condition. The PS will have the same. Both would be very safe boats out in the big waves. Out in big waves you will be thrown around and injured on the SO410. You are likely to lose your teeth on that boat.

Those 2 problems with the SO410 would put it out of contention for me. I also don't like plumb bows. You hit a dock ( I have seen it happen a few times, luckily not me) or a sea-can and you have damage. The reason it needs this plumb bow is because the wide stern is so buoyant that you need to get some floatation up front or it will sit bow down. This is not a good design.

The SO is also going to be pretty hard on the crew with all the slamming around your going to be doing with that shallow canoe body. By the time you get across to the Azores your going to be exhausted. It is a sled which you sit on top of at the back.

The PS is out of contention because it is heavy and slow. This is not a compromise it is a bad design flaw (my opinion only) Will this boat even make 125 miles a day? That said it will be a safe and comfortable boat that when it does finally get you to your destination you will not be completely exhausted.

The Idylle 51 empty weighs about 38k with mast in no sails. It is not slow. It is very fast. There is no reason to have a slow boat just because it has to go out on the blue water. Put enough spar on it so that it can be driven. Sailors have to reduce sail at some point so add in the option to go faster and start to reduce sail earlier.

That said, a PS or SO is better than no boat at all. They make all kinds of boats just like they make all kinds of beer for a reason. People are different and like different things. There are people who will love these boats and who is to say they are wrong.

However there are all kinds of boats out there in the 40 ft range that are a better compromise than the SO410 or the PS40.

The Idylle line represents a fascinating best-of-both-worlds combination of design principles that makes me wonder why the company didn't stick with it.

[Cynara]

We sailed our Hans Christian 34, traditional, boat thousands of miles and barely motored. We sailed from Long Beach California through the Panama canal and up to Washington DC. The first 1,200 miles we ran the engine 30 hours, usually when entering an Anchorage. We met many sailors who motored all the time if0 they weren't going 7 knots. One passage we averaged one knot an hour for 24 hours.

[hpeer]

A 46’ Bavaria made it to Oz.

https://boatwatch.org/flotsam-jetsam...-in-australia/

[hdelany]

No comparison in my opinion.

If you want to sit at the dock or close to harbor, entertain, and have cocktails, go with the new design. If you're a serious sailor, and plan to travel with the boat, do crossings, etc, then go with Pacific Seacraft. You'll have less interior, smaller cockpit, but you'll feel safe at sea when it kicks up. As for resale value, I think the PC will hold its own better. I've heard too many stories of the Jeanneau breaking on trips. All kinds of weak spots on the boat.

[bcboomer]

If I were in the market to buy a new boat and had some lead time I'd look at the Adventure 40 project. Some pretty high targets have been set but it looks like it may come about and ticks all the boxes for cruising.