Newer boat vs older in same price range

[savoir]

I'm not sure what you are seeing. I have that boat advertised on Yachtworld at USD349,500. It is expensive but not greatly overpriced. At around USD320,000 it would be a reasonable buy.

[icedog11]

My purchase budget was purchase, fees, then +20% of purchase price for upgrades and refit and initial marina fees. With that in mind I'm looking to keep purchase price under 280.


the link to the boat is at $480k noticed it was in Australian dollars after I posted.

[savoir]

I am currently in Sydney Australia. My computer is picking up the Australian Yachtworld website even though my searches are in USD. Anyway . . . .

A Morris at that price will be a daysailer so moving right along, I'm not a fan of either Hinckley or IP although the reasons are different so I won't be recommending either. Take a look at the Hylas series. They are all beautifully built and very roomy inside. You do need to be OK with the centre cockpit style. Some are not.
1987 Hylas Centercockpit Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - au.yachtworld.com

[Jim Cate]

thread drift class B warning*******

I'm struck by the superficial similarity between Hinkley's change from high class traditional design and build to the more modern carbon design depicted above... and the recent debacle at Oyster. I sure hope that Hinkley has done their homework better; it would be a bloody shame to see their sterling reputation, earned over many decades of excellence, dragged down like Oyster's.

Jim

[lifeofreilly57]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

thread drift class B warning*******

I'm struck by the superficial similarity between Hinkley's change from high class traditional design and build to the more modern carbon design depicted above... and the recent debacle at Oyster. I sure hope that Hinkley has done their homework better; it would be a bloody shame to see their sterling reputation, earned over many decades of excellence, dragged down like Oyster's.

Jim

I can only hope they used sound engineering and well developed layup practices when moving into the modern era. Along the east Coast there are quite a few custom boat builders and designers who are quite familiar with modern materials and the engineering needed to utilize them to the most efficient application, all within a driving distance of each other. I would think Hinckley did their homework before taking such a big move.
The most famous models in their line were designed over 30 years ago as cruiser/racer models, it's about time they moved into the modern era, it doesn't mean they have to compromise quality to do it. A company can't survive on nostalgia.
The only newer models they've done in the last decade were rich boy day sailors that had a classic look but modern underbodies, although it's been a very successful line it has a limited market, they have to look toward the future to stay competetive. I'm sure there's a lot of well heeled yachties who'd love to do the Newport Bermuda race in style. With matching polo shirts and khaki shorts of course.
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
And anyway, they still have their traditional line of yachts, if all else fails.
Don't worry, Biff and Dodie won't have to switch allegiance.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

A company can't survive on nostalgia.

Tell that to Harley Davidson, they needed a new engine design 50+ years ago. Heck if Rotax can make great twins, Harley could have too, a lot earlier.

The triumph of marketing over product, can last a lot longer than most people think.

It's easy to get suckered into it too, especially when you get customers playing along with it with hopes of maintaining 'value'.

For example, I only found out how bad a VW Campervan actually was, when I bought one. It was only when I was in the 'Suckers Club'[tm] that fellow 'victims' opened up to the problems they were having with theirs (mine got through 3 engines in 12 months, for example, and yes, you could get engines out fast, but that was when your real problems started, plus there were catalogues of other problems).

Once accountants start having an influence on design and production, the writing is definitely on the wall though.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by savoir

I'm not sure what you are seeing. I have that boat advertised on Yachtworld at USD349,500. It is expensive but not greatly overpriced. At around USD320,000 it would be a reasonable buy.

Being from Maine, I can attest that the level of workmanship and attention to detail that go into every Hinckley (and also Morris) yacht is truly second to none. At least for yachts in that price bracket. However, as nice as Morris yachts are, I have always seen them as "Hinckley" knock-offs. Very nice knock-offs, but still. Your boat looks very nice, indeed, yet my personal taste gravitates towards more "pizzaz" and cool design concepts. Not "new" concepts, mind you, but cool concepts. To that regard, and although your boat is 9 years younger, I'd prefer to snatch up this Ted Hood Little Harbor for a similar $$$ outlay.

1984 Little Harbor 44 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

The joinery, aft cabin layout, cool kitchen, and overall stellar detail that went into those old Little Harbors make them the winner in my book. Ooh la laaa! Day in, and day out. Not sailing one now, but sure do hope to be some day soon.

As for Hinckley, they are what they are (great yachts), yet the company's change in direction towards motor boating (cough), not to mention the very ugly (my opinion) new Bermuda 50, leaves me a little sad. IPs? No thanks.

[savoir]

I am extremely flattered but the Morris in question isn't mine. I just find it an attractive example of the brand.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by savoir

I am extremely flattered but the Morris in question isn't mine. I just find it an attractive example of the brand.

Mmmm. Maybe it was this (top of the page)?:

Savoir: "I'm not sure what you are seeing. I have that boat advertised on Yachtworld at USD349,500. It is expensive but not greatly overpriced. At around USD320,000 it would be a reasonable buy."

I'm a professional editor, yet please forgive me if I misunderstood something. It happens sometimes, but not often.

[lifeofreilly57]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

Tell that to Harley Davidson, they needed a new engine design 50+ years ago. Heck if Rotax can make great twins, Harley could have too, a lot earlier.

The triumph of marketing over product, can last a lot longer than most people think.

It's easy to get suckered into it too, especially when you get customers playing along with it with hopes of maintaining 'value'.

For example, I only found out how bad a VW Campervan actually was, when I bought one. It was only when I was in the 'Suckers Club'[tm] that fellow 'victims' opened up to the problems they were having with theirs (mine got through 3 engines in 12 months, for example, and yes, you could get engines out fast, but that was when your real problems started, plus there were catalogues of other problems).

Once accountants start having an influence on design and production, the writing is definitely on the wall though.

I have to laugh at the Harley analogy. I've been riding road bikes since I got my license at 16, first on British, then Japanese sport bikes. All my friends who wanted to "look cool" got Harleys and then paid and paid and paid to keep them running, so their jokes about my Lucas electrics didn't get much traction.
Harley did indeed cash in on the nostalgia market, catering to all the baby boomer boys who finally got up the spine to get a motorcycle their wives wouldn't allow them to get before, when they went through midlife crisis. Now Harley finds that market falling off, most of the midlife crisis boys are moving on to Audis and Beemers, and Harley finds more competition from other makers who built more modern pieces. They will have to update their line if they want to stay viable in the future, pollution and noise standards will force them to.
Hinckley is in the same boat (aargh) so to speak, they need to appeal to a younger, broader market while still retaining their base. It's a tough balancing act. I actually like the new 50, but then again I came out of sporting boats and like the performance and sailing ability of those boats. If they can find the right balance and maintain the same quality they've been known for it just might work. I doubt their going to stop building their legacy models anytime soon but they may possibly be updating their materials and performance stnadards whie maintaining their classic looks. Now wouldn't that be a nice package?

[Scout 30]

Let's not over react to the new Hinckley Bermuda 50 design. The other 6 sailboat models the offer still have classic styling. Personally I'm glad. Not really a fan of patterning cruising boats after race boats.

[boatbrain]

This discussion is certainly interesting. I think the thread has already drifted enough for my take on it:

1. I'm reading someone with about a 50 foot well respected boat poking a bit of ridicule at preppies. - hate to break it to you, but you are in the 1% already - maybe not the .1% or the .01%, but you are in the 1%, so relax and enjoy it.

2. I'm also reading page after page of comparisons of some of the most expensive boats one can buy - with thumbs down to some pretty nice boats, faults they might have - IF these are sincere discussions of the buying decisions of the posters, these folks have a LOT of choices- really, really a lot - For example, they can call a Yachtbroker, tell him what they want in a used boat, and that it has to be in perfect condition, and don't bother them with anything less - and then go pay cash for about the same money as the down payment on the Ferrari boat bought new.

I am not trying to get into class warfare on a yacht discussion page, but this
"Geez, the Ferrari is OK, but it's nothing like the Bugatti" stuff seems kind of silly from any standpoint - once you've got the money to buy a strong solid safe boat for cash, without a need to look very hard, if you want to do cruising, go buy it and drop the dock lines.

No offense intended to anyone.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by icedog11

My purchase budget was purchase, fees, then +20% of purchase price for upgrades and refit and initial marina fees. With that in mind I'm looking to keep purchase price under 280.


the link to the boat is at $480k noticed it was in Australian dollars after I posted.

So, just curious, icedog, are you interested in a list of best-built boats in a certain size range at a price of 280k or less? There is a lot of wisdom here on that topic, but it would help to put down a few of your preferences, what your cruising plans are etc... Hylas, Morris, IP, Hinkley, Little Harbor, Swan... it's a who's who of very nice boats... and there are more! Leaving 20% is smart but you might consider more. Stuff comes up...

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by boatbrain

I am not trying to get into class warfare on a yacht discussion page, but this
"Geez, the Ferrari is OK, but it's nothing like the Bugatti" stuff seems kind of silly from any standpoint

But I think it's fair to point out that a Volvo is nothing like a Porsche.

Like you said, there are many choices in between...

[barnakiel]

I think new vs. old is IS valid e.g. when a new boat of the old class is not available: imagine one who wants a specific S&S design.

When new and old are SAME PRICE (range) then we are talking different boats (e.g smaller vs. bigger, cleaner vs. rougher, etc).

Not sure why people think boats are anything different than any other goods. General rules apply. Otherwise there would be arbitrage and prices would be brought in to one level.

b.