List Price vs Offer Price in the $700K+ Range

[BlueWaterFever]

We are seriously seeking a used trawler in the 48'-58' range. Models are Nordhaven, Kadey Krogen and Selene. Due to current market conditions we don't want to pay too much for a boat, nor do we want to miss out on a good deal. What % off the list price is a good starting point for an offer on a used boat? Also, if we chose to go new, what would that % off be?

[sandy daugherty]

Sailboat asking and selling prices are all over the map. Some go for full price after sitting on the market for a year or more, and some sell for 15 or 20% below asking in a month. Where there has been a long production run (the same or similar models have been built in large numbers for years) there will be a fairly consistant price line. Some sellers are misguided, and some listings are made at unrealistically high prices by Brokers who just want to get the listing, expecting the seller to get reasonable after time passes. Commissions are typically 6%, split between listing and selling brokers, who split that commission with the salesman. So salesmen are less interested in a few thousand dollars in the final price than they are in getting some income at all. They can go months between deals.

But what matters more than the boats age is it's condition and additional equipment: A large or new sail inventory can set the price tens of thousands or dollars higher, as can recent and extensive electronics suites.

If you find a twenty year-old boat that has been rigorously kept up, with everything shiney and functional, you can pay more than it sold for new; much more!

A broker has access to the prices that many used boats sold for, but even that is a poor guide because you need to know how well equipped and maintained it was to make any sense of the deal.

In the end, if you take the time to familiarized yourself with boats in general and a few select models in particular, you will be able to judge what a boat is worth to you, and make an intelligent offer.

If that isn't clear enough, just remember; if a boat sells for more than 20% below the asking price, something was going on you may not want to deal with, like a truly adverse survey.

Last point: Do not spend any money you can't throw away on a boat without a survey, and ask the surveyor for an appraisal.

[rourkeh]

New power boat prices in the production boat market are in the area of 20% - 30% profit off off full retail. The manufacurers make evenmore off the extra equipment and options. Right now the used boat market is awash in inventory. At the lower end $150,000 and under there is some buying but the high end of the market $500,000 and up the is no business at all. I know some boat dealers who have brand new $1,000,000+ boats in stock that are 2007's. The only relief they are getting is some floorplan (banks) companies are suspending interest payments so the dealers don't go bankrupt. Buying a boat at this point is probably one of the best times we will ever see. If you buy new you will here all kind of stories from dealers but you are in command. Offer at least 25% off retail list or walk. If you order a boat ask for more. The dealer has no interest expense. But remember even if you but a new boat at dealer cost it will still depreciate heavily in the first 2-3 years. A used boat (we just bought one) in the $500k region you should be able to steal or walk. There is no money out there, so the used market is probably the best deal. We just bought a used boat for about 40% of what it would have sold for 4 years ago. Be patient, decide exactly what you want and do not be emotional.
Also check for bank repo's. There are thousands of these coming in every week. If you get lucky you can buy one of these for pennies on the dollar
try national liquidators and similar sights. Good luck.

[nettlesbe]

@rourkeh - Where to look for bank repo's?

Oh, sorry for being lazy. Just Googled and found several sites.

Looks like the listed prices are much lower than list on yachtworld - 20% or more.

Anybody know how much the banks negotiate on list price for repo's?

[donradcliffe]

I visited National Liquidators in person a couple of months ago, and it seemed the listed prices were well above what the banks would really accept. In this market a low ball offer is 50% or less of asking price.

[shadow]

With this very soft market, I am still amazed at how delusional some people are. I've dealt with a few from Europe and they were asking not that far below a newer priced one, but it had tons of years and miles under her. And no, if you were thinking it was in Bristol condition, think again. Some people just can't let go of their yachts as their hearts are securely attached to them.. Trust me, I don't blame them as I would hate to "have" to sell my yacht, but come on people.. Just use common sense and use your head, not your heart...

For the record, their yacht is still for sale and this was years ago when I first talked to them.. oh well...

[rourkeh]

The bank repo agents get paid to try and help the banks recover as much of their money as possible. Once they get possession of a vessel they put a high ABOS retail asking price on the boat, they then have weekly sealed bid actions whereby they accept all offers and then present the highest one to the bank. Alot of factor come in to play here. How long the boat has been sitting since it was recovered, this is important because the federal government will only allow the bank to carry the bad loan on the books for a defined period before they must right that loan down to zero. Hence the longer it sits the more susceptible the banks are to taking a loss. Next we have no idea what the outstading loan balance is. I personally know someone who bid $125,000 on a 72' Burger that was listed for $700,000 and won the boat because then loan balance was only $125,000. I myself have bid on several boats that sold very close to the asking price because of excessive interest and high loan balances. Also you have alot of people out there that put in bids every week and have absolutely no way of paying for the boats if they are the high bidder. These boat then come back up for auction the next week again even though someone theoretically already bought them. Right now there are thousands of these boats for sale, and if you do a thorough inspection, and survey before closing you can get a very good deal. It all comes down to finding the right boat for your needs and being willing to invest the time.

[mtnsapo]

I did the google thing as well, but the results were mixed. what are a few of the GOOD sites that have good inventories? Are there a few known name, reputable boat liquidators out there that i shouls seriously consider?

TIA

Brian

[bstreep]

I can give you some general information on negotiating on boats:

1) Never... did I say NEVER? NEVER fall in love with a boat. I mean NEVER. Don't even pretend to like it.

2) Walk away from the table, and don't look back. You WILL tick some brokers and owners off. Don't worry about it - there are plenty more out there.

3) Offer low. Way low. And put a big deposit down - so they know you are serious. If you have cash, even better. Write a check for the full amount. The broker is required to present the offer. You might just get lucky. Sometimes your lowball offer hits at exactly the right time - usually right after another deal on the boat falls apart.

4) Whatever you do, see #1. And then #2.