Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's not good for a diesel engine to run it all the time at too small a fraction of its designed output, so oversize with care.

On the other hand, if you want to motor or motorsail upwind in strong conditions, you may need more power than the standard formulae indicate. I found myself wishing for a bit more power (and/or a bigger prop) in my boat after a few legs motorsailing against Baltic gales -- and I have 100 horsepower.

Totally agree. I've had to motorsail against the trades in the Caribbean and a little extra power was really needed. The OP mentioned the largest engine he could fit in the boat which could be serious overkill.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Stumble

What's the budget? The only way I can envision shoe horning all this into a 40' boat is by gutting the interior and having a custom layout done to your specs. A small 40' like the Hinkley 42' just isn't going to have the type of room needed for this equipment. As with most things in boating it really comes down to money.

What you are trying to do is squeeze the types of system normally found on a mid 50's boat into a 40' and while doable it's going to get expensive quick.

Just ballpark guesses, let's say the hull is $250k, add another 100k in interior refit, $50k in electrical/water systems, 15-30k in satellite internet, 50k in new electronics, and an additional 50k for the unforeseen. You now have upwards of $500k invested in a boat worth around $200k. Since you will take a hit on resale for the custom layout.

Or buy a bigger boat like the Irwin 54' (I am using this as an example since I know them well) for $350,000 add say $75k for systems and your done, with a boat worth about $350k. You will also have a lot more room, and a less cramped space.

Hi Greg, I should have been more clear. When I was discussing "budget", I was specifically referring to the monthly cost of having a sate-of-the-art satellite communication system on the boat. The other costs I'm quite well aware of, or maybe better stated, don't have many questions about.

My current contract will end here in Japan in 2 years. My goal after that is to run my private business from the boat. To be able to do that successfully, I will need silky smooth 24/7/365 Internet access, regardless of where I am at any given moment; e.g., cruising the Greek isles in August, anchored in Camden, Maine, slowly hopscotching the Lesser Antilles, or exploring French Polynesia. The business pays for the cruising, so it comes first by default. However, I want to run the business from anywhere, as opposed to being constantly tethered to marina WiFi hotspots, thus leading my concern about the monthly Inmarsat fees.

I envision an average day going something like this: I'm anchored far away from anywhere, with no humans or WiFi in sight (imagine a very remote atoll in the S. Pacific). I wake up, make some coffee, go topside and flip open my MacBook Pro Retina, fire up the Internet, check my business mail, download some heavy files, fire back some quick e-mails, including heavy files, close the laptop, yawn, take another sip of coffee, and then dive in for a swim. All done from the middle of absolute nowhere, with both freezers fully stocked, endless hot and cold pressurized water, more electricity than I know what to do with, and a few hundred gallons of diesel always on tap. Total self sufficiency for months on end.

The mitigating factor will be the global communications ($$$$$). And that is an important factor. Well, that plus the fact that a 42-foot Sou'wester may not cut it for what I need, size wise. In which case, I'm looking at a 51 footer. Regardless, I have a sickness where it "must be a Hinckley", which is not wise, just romantic.

[Stumble]

International fees are pretty predictable. Figure 1$/MB or thereabouts. Speed is costly as well, but you pay for it on the front end.

$60,000 for a 4/1Mb transfer speed
$30,000 for a 2/1
$15,000 for a 2/.256

You can go cheaper, but at less speed. All of them will end up about $1/MB.

You also have to deal with the size. Those same antennas start at 60" and basically cut in half every speed step down. So figuring out where to mount the thing could be a big issue for a larger dish.

To get a full world coverage area there is a real issue. KU band which covers all land masses (except some small islands in the Southern Hemisphere and all of the North Altantic and North Pacific. To get coverage in the Souther oceans requires C band systems. But even this leaves holes, specifically in the areas closest to the poles. To cover that area you have to switch to Iridium.
As you go from KU-C-iridium the speeds fall off a cliff. Where KU can approach broadband speeds Iridium is 2.8Kbps. The cost per MB also goes up.

[kellyp08]

John

I am also a Mainer. Have a look at CYGNUS, a SW50 yawl being offered by Hinckley brokerage. She's a SW 50 and in perfect condition. Her specs are almost exactly what you have in your wish-list. She's a good solid cruising boat, perfect for the Maine coast, Bay of Fundy, Nova Scotia .... and Europe.

She's a good solid full keeled boat; in remarkable condition.

Have a look; contact me if you have any questions.

Pat

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Totally agree. I've had to motorsail against the trades in the Caribbean and a little extra power was really needed. The OP mentioned the largest engine he could fit in the boat which could be serious overkill.

The OP would be me!
Yes, I like overkill, and redundancy, in spades. Especially with safety and self-sufficient remoteness in mind. If 2 is more than enough, I'll take 3, thank you.

Safety, plus back ups, plus many frozen sirloins, plus constant connectivity will make me a very happy cruiser. If Hinckley thinks a 50hp Yanmar is sufficient for the Newport set, then give me 100hp.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by kellyp08

John

I am also a Mainer. Have a look at CYGNUS, a SW50 yawl being offered by Hinckley brokerage. She's a SW 50 and in perfect condition. Her specs are almost exactly what you have in your wish-list. She's a good solid cruising boat, perfect for the Maine coast, Bay of Fundy, Nova Scotia .... and Europe.

She's a good solid full keeled boat; in remarkable condition.

Have a look; contact me if you have any questions.

Pat

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the heads up on CYGNUS. The name rings a bell, and I may have seen her on-line. I was also looking at another SW 51 named Dark Star. Pretty boat, yet didn't care much for the red interior.

My dream girl is named "BLUEBELL", a R.I. based '95 SW 42 MkII sloop that is currently at Hinckley and being offered for $425K. Bluebell is such a honey, and there's a nice sales video of her cruising downeast, yet I'm now thinking she's too small for my needs. Regardless, I'd love to walk up and slap down $300K "cold hard" and see if they bite.

By the way, I love the look of a fully rigged Hinckley yawl or ketch. Just wonderful.

Will check out CYGNUS, "ahayuhh!" ("yes", in Maine)

Best,

John

[Scout 30]

I've picked mine out. Sweet!


1962 Hinckley Bermuda 40 Custom Yawl Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Stumble

International fees are pretty predictable. Figure 1$/MB or thereabouts. Speed is costly as well, but you pay for it on the front end.

$60,000 for a 4/1Mb transfer speed
$30,000 for a 2/1
$15,000 for a 2/.256

You can go cheaper, but at less speed. All of them will end up about $1/MB.

You also have to deal with the size. Those same antennas start at 60" and basically cut in half every speed step down. So figuring out where to mount the thing could be a big issue for a larger dish.

To get a full world coverage area there is a real issue. KU band which covers all land masses (except some small islands in the Southern Hemisphere and all of the North Altantic and North Pacific. To get coverage in the Souther oceans requires C band systems. But even this leaves holes, specifically in the areas closest to the poles. To cover that area you have to switch to Iridium.
As you go from KU-C-iridium the speeds fall off a cliff. Where KU can approach broadband speeds Iridium is 2.8Kbps. The cost per MB also goes up.

Excellent! Thanks, Greg. I'm actually thinking primarily about the tropics, with a mix of Maine, Nova Scotia, and the Med thrown in from time to time. The polar caps hold zero interest for me, so that takes Iridium out of the equation.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by dpddj

Living in Maine and working in the marine industry I know the Morris and Hinkley lines as well. Well made, solid, dependable, expensive boats. Service yards see them coming and they think $$$.
Me? To do what you are thinking about I'd be looking at a motorsailer in the 50' range.
But then, you know what they say about opinions.
Here's to success in your quest.

Thank you, dpddj! How do you like your catamaran?

[Scout 30]

Here's a Hinckley that'll blow your mind. They used to be great wooden boat builders.


1988 Hinckley Francis Herreshoff ketch Tioga Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I will assume you are actually serious and not just pulling our legs. There is no way, no how, ever, at all you will get all that stuff in a 40-42' boat and still have room for a person inside as well. Even in the 50' range Hinkleys you will be pushing it.

Most of the questions and requirements you asked have been well answered by others but I'll add one thing. No point in getting a giant engine in a sailboat. They are displacement boats and after a certain point a bunch of extra horsepower will give you nothing at all except take up more room and add a lot of weight.

Yes, I know! Good points, all. But, I have a problem. I fell in love with a girl named "Bluebell" (a 42-footer), and since when has romance ever been equated to common sense?

I can somewhat rethink my fuel and water desires, but the washing machine and extra freezer (plus generator) I want.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

Hi Greg, I should have been more clear. When I was discussing "budget", I was specifically referring to the monthly cost of having a sate-of-the-art satellite communication system on the boat. The other costs I'm quite well aware of, or maybe better stated, don't have many questions about.

My current contract will end here in Japan in 2 years. My goal after that is to run my private business from the boat. To be able to do that successfully, I will need silky smooth 24/7/365 Internet access, regardless of where I am at any given moment; e.g., cruising the Greek isles in August, anchored in Camden, Maine, slowly hopscotching the Lesser Antilles, or exploring French Polynesia. The business pays for the cruising, so it comes first by default. However, I want to run the business from anywhere, as opposed to being constantly tethered to marina WiFi hotspots, thus leading my concern about the monthly Inmarsat fees.

I envision an average day going something like this: I'm anchored far away from anywhere, with no humans or WiFi in sight (imagine a very remote atoll in the S. Pacific). I wake up, make some coffee, go topside and flip open my MacBook Pro Retina, fire up the Internet, check my business mail, download some heavy files, fire back some quick e-mails, including heavy files, close the laptop, yawn, take another sip of coffee, and then dive in for a swim. All done from the middle of absolute nowhere, with both freezers fully stocked, endless hot and cold pressurized water, more electricity than I know what to do with, and a few hundred gallons of diesel always on tap. Total self sufficiency for months on end.

The mitigating factor will be the global communications ($$$$$). And that is an important factor. Well, that plus the fact that a 42-foot Sou'wester may not cut it for what I need, size wise. In which case, I'm looking at a 51 footer. Regardless, I have a sickness where it "must be a Hinckley", which is not wise, just romantic.

Nor is the 51 foot Hinckley. Look at a bunch of boats, and you'll understand.


Concerning data comms - a trawl through the archives on here will be illuminating.

My use is similar to what you think your use will be – I live on board much of the year and run my business from the boat. The only difference is that there is a good bit of passage-making on my agenda – I migrate from the UK 1500 miles to Finland and back every year, via 9 or 10 countries. I have a modern-ish 54 foot cruising boat, and for spending this much time aboard I would not want anything smaller. It's your home after all. I can hardly find space to store things as it is, and I am single handed much of the time. The smaller the boat, the higher a proportion of its mass is represented by a given amount of stuff, water, fuel, etc. – keep that in mind.

Marina wifi is the LAST place you will go for a data connection, since at least 10 years. Your number one most useful data connection by far whenever you are near land is always going to be mobile phone data. You set up an LTE router with a SIM card from every country and you’re good to go. This will work even some miles out to sea, and the connection is good enough for VOIP (I hardly use circuit-switched voice anymore). So you will have a constant connection during coastal passages. You don’t even need an LTE connection – even an HSPA+ connection will usually have latency less than 50 ms and will work very much like a broadband connection at home works. LTE is just icing on the cake. Marina wifi, even the best, doesn’t remotely come close in quality, and there is no marina wifi in anchorages. It’s cheap at around $10 a gigabyte average, so you can use it pretty much like you use the Internet at home.

If you must have data out of sight of land, you’ll want Fleet Broadband, at significant cost. And do not imagine that this is like a normal Internet connection on land – the kind which is realistic in physical size and cost for a sailing yacht will give you realistic 64kbs with huge latency – like a dialup modem connection, except for the latency, which is worse than dialup. I do not have it, nor any kind of sat comms. My boat came with a fixed installed sat phone which I have never activated. I have SSB radio with a Pactor modem for offshore comms – very slow text-only email, but it’s good enough for the limited amount of time I spend far offshore. It’s unlikely that you will need something like Fleet Broadband unless you are doing a circumnavigation with lots of ocean crossings, and need to be in full communications the whole time. For sailing to the Carib and back once and a while, a normal sat phone or SSB will be enough – the time you spend on passage is a very small fraction of your time on board.

Good luck.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Here's a Hinckley that'll blow your mind. They used to be great wooden boat builders.


1988 Hinckley Francis Herreshoff ketch Tioga Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Yes, indeed! I've seen her, and she has such beautiful lines. To that regard, there are many beautiful wooden boats. The 59-foot Alden-designed schooner "Mayan" that David Crosby (CSNY) just sold in Santa Barbara also comes to mind.

[westsail374]

[QUOTE=


The other day I was looking on-line at a mid-‘80s Hank Hinckley-designed 42-foot pilot house ketch currently for sale in Seattle. It’s a nice boat, and set up for offshore excursions. Also, the size of the pilot house offers possible spaces for the extra items I want, yet not so sure I want to stand all day while piloting at the outside helm just aft of the mizzen mast, straining to look over the pilot house to navigate. It has a traditional flag-blue Hinckley hull with nice lines, and it does have a full keel, yet that pilot house is both a deal helper and breaker at the same time. The Hood roller-furled jib, main, and mizzen sails are a plus for me.[/FONT]

I came to Seattle and test sailed this boat. It was a very nice, fairly stiff sailor - one of a kind, Hank Hinckley design. Not full keel but modified. She is empty and responsive, but might be heavier to steer when loaded with gear and supplies. Really top-notch quality. Mizzen boom is very low - duck at every tack. No private second cabin. Definitely hard to see around the pilothouse from cockpit. Also, the guy who it was designed for was a bit short, and while headroom is fine, some dimensions would need to be carefully looked over. Been on the market a loooong time, possible bargain.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Nor is the 51 foot Hinckley. Look at a bunch of boats, and you'll understand.


Concerning data comms - a trawl through the archives on here will be illuminating.

My use is similar to what you think your use will be – I live on board much of the year and run my business from the boat. The only difference is that there is a good bit of passage-making on my agenda – I migrate from the UK 1500 miles to Finland and back every year, via 9 or 10 countries. I have a modern-ish 54 foot cruising boat, and for spending this much time aboard I would not want anything smaller. It's your home after all. I can hardly find space to store things as it is, and I am single handed much of the time. The smaller the boat, the higher a proportion of its mass is represented by a given amount of stuff, water, fuel, etc. – keep that in mind.

Marina wifi is the LAST place you will go for a data connection, since at least 10 years. Your number one most useful data connection by far whenever you are near land is always going to be mobile phone data. You set up an LTE router with a SIM card from every country and you’re good to go. This will work even some miles out to sea, and the connection is good enough for VOIP (I hardly use circuit-switched voice anymore). So you will have a constant connection during coastal passages. You don’t even need an LTE connection – even an HSPA+ connection will usually have latency less than 50 ms and will work very much like a broadband connection at home works. LTE is just icing on the cake. Marina wifi, even the best, doesn’t remotely come close in quality, and there is no marina wifi in anchorages. It’s cheap at around $10 a gigabyte average, so you can use it pretty much like you use the Internet at home.

If you must have data out of sight of land, you’ll want Fleet Broadband, at significant cost. And do not imagine that this is like a normal Internet connection on land – the kind which is realistic in physical size and cost for a sailing yacht will give you realistic 64kbs with huge latency – like a dialup modem connection, except for the latency, which is worse than dialup. I do not have it, nor any kind of sat comms. My boat came with a fixed installed sat phone which I have never activated. I have SSB radio with a Pactor modem for offshore comms – very slow text-only email, but it’s good enough for the limited amount of time I spend far offshore. It’s unlikely that you will need something like Fleet Broadband unless you are doing a circumnavigation with lots of ocean crossings, and need to be in full communications the whole time. For sailing to the Carib and back once and a while, a normal sat phone or SSB will be enough – the time you spend on passage is a very small fraction of your time on board.

Good luck.

Dockhead, thank you so much! Excellent, excellent info! Exactly what I need to know, and learn. It would appear that you and I are of similar minds, business wise. If I may be so bold, what's your connectivity setting you back per month, on average? Disregard that question if you care not to share that info.

Thanks again!!