Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

[PortClydeMe]

Hi Everyone, just joined the forum. Nice site. Been reading here for awhile, and another thread here titled "Why do cruising couples quit" (or something along those lines) gave me impetus to finally join up, and I wanted to start with a post here about monohull liveaboard cruising -- and in specific, Hinckleys.

Born and raised in Maine (currently living in Japan for the past 10 years), I spent many summers of my youth cruising the Maine coast in my fathers boat, and it has always been my dream to someday own a Hinckley. I now run a private Internet business that allows me to work from wherever I have a laptop and on-line access, and I recently "got the itch" to pursue a liveaboard life. I've been sailing (not Hinckleys!) since I was around 7, and now at 53 I have a strong desire (as opposed to a dream) to live and work from a nice liveaboard vessel, and subsequently, a bunch of questions.

I want to do coastal cruising, as well as blue water passages when the mood hits. My ideal boat would be a Sou'wester 42 or 51 in nearly new condition, yet after much consideration, my "dream boat" has some drawbacks (beyond price!) that have me wondering if a Hinckley 42 will ultimately work for me. I'm stuck on a Hinckley, although other keel and rudder arrangements, as well as size/displacements, make better sense for ocean passages, because it's just "what I want". The company's current focus on jet-boat motor cruisers and away from their classic sailboats saddens me, but I find the joinery and style and lines so much more to my taste than the modern "plastic coated" offerings from around the world. Plus, I'm from Maine, and I like the sound of "Hinckley" better than "Morris". Joking aside, I like teak decks! I want a teak/mahogany interior. The more brightwork the better, inside and out! I love to strip, sand, and varnish "real wood"! Call me nuts.

Anyway, here are my primary needs, and why I know that I'll have to heavily modify a production 42/51 Sou'wester. Space is the major problem that I have to overcome with many of these, and I would greatly appreciate all comments and advice from you fine folks:

Space related:

1) Lots of water, hot and cold, all the time. The more storage the better, and a "many gallon per day" water maker stealthily installed. I have zero desire to haul water jugs in a tender.

2) Lots of freezer storage, even if that means installing a second "large" dedicated freezer. I want to shop, freeze, and forget about provisioning for months at a time.

3) The best (durability plus most horsepower) engine option that will "fit".

4) Lots of fuel storage. As much fuel on board as physically possible.

5) Lots of generator/batter power, all the time. I never want to even think about power, AND, I don't want the boat to look like a solar/wind farm "campers paradise". Nothing against that, I just don't want it.

Not (necessarily?) space related:

1) The best electronic navigation equipment currently available (for both cockpit and nav station).

2) The best global communications setup: For my private business I need (not want) 24/7/365 Internet access, always and everywhere, without excuses. Inmarsat, Thrane & Thrane, suggestions?

3) The best autopilot money can buy. I will often single-hand, so I like the word "redundancy", very much.

So, yeah. That about sums it up, for now. The most water, fuel, juice, and freezer storage available, as well as the best state-of-the-art electronics.

Anyway, nice forum "yawl" have here. Would very much welcome suggestions. Even snide comments much enjoyed! My skin is not thin. And, please note that I currently don't have a Hinckley and am a few years away from even looking for one (i.e., now saving $$$$).


John

[Stumble]

First I doubt 40 foot will actually be large enough for all that. You are going to need more space to store everything.

But a few details are needed. Like how much bandwith do you need versus want. Satellite internet is possible even high speed internet, but it will cost an arm and a leg. Large fuel tanks and a decent sized water maker is pretty easy, but having a water heater on all the time will consume a ton of power. Even scaling back to an on demand unit would make a world of difference.

Honesty I appreciate your excitement, but I think you need to do some reading on the realities of living aboard. While it's wonderful there are practical realities that need to be adressed.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

Hi Everyone, just joined the forum. Nice site. Been reading here for awhile, and another thread here titled "Why do cruising couples quit" (or something along those lines) gave me impetus to finally join up, and I wanted to start with a post here about monohull liveaboard cruising -- and in specific, Hinckleys.

Born and raised in Maine (currently living in Japan for the past 10 years), I spent many summers of my youth cruising the Maine coast in my fathers boat, and it has always been my dream to someday own a Hinckley. I now run a private Internet business that allows me to work from wherever I have a laptop and on-line access, and I recently "got the itch" to pursue a liveaboard life. I've been sailing (not Hinckleys!) since I was around 7, and now at 53 I have a strong desire (as opposed to a dream) to live and work from a nice liveaboard vessel, and subsequently, a bunch of questions.

I want to do coastal cruising, as well as blue water passages when the mood hits. My ideal boat would be a Sou'wester 42 or 51 in nearly new condition, yet after much consideration, my "dream boat" has some drawbacks (beyond price!) that have me wondering if a Hinckley 42 will ultimately work for me. I'm stuck on a Hinckley, although other keel and rudder arrangements, as well as size/displacements, make better sense for ocean passages, because it's just "what I want". The company's current focus on jet-boat motor cruisers and away from their classic sailboats saddens me, but I find the joinery and style and lines so much more to my taste than the modern "plastic coated" offerings from around the world. Plus, I'm from Maine, and I like the sound of "Hinckley" better than "Morris". Joking aside, I like teak decks! I want a teak/mahogany interior. The more brightwork the better, inside and out! I love to strip, sand, and varnish "real wood"! Call me nuts.

Anyway, here are my primary needs, and why I know that I'll have to heavily modify a production 42/51 Sou'wester. Space is the major problem that I have to overcome with many of these, and I would greatly appreciate all comments and advice from you fine folks:

Space related:

1) Lots of water, hot and cold, all the time. The more storage the better, and a "many gallon per day" water maker stealthily installed. I have zero desire to haul water jugs in a tender.

2) Lots of freezer storage, even if that means installing a second "large" dedicated freezer. I want to shop, freeze, and forget about provisioning for months at a time.

3) The best (durability plus most horsepower) engine option that will "fit".

4) Lots of fuel storage. As much fuel on board as physically possible.

5) Lots of generator/batter power, all the time. I never want to even think about power, AND, I don't want the boat to look like a solar/wind farm "campers paradise". Nothing against that, I just don't want it.

Not (necessarily?) space related:

1) The best electronic navigation equipment currently available (for both cockpit and nav station).

2) The best global communications setup: For my private business I need (not want) 24/7/365 Internet access, always and everywhere, without excuses. Inmarsat, Thrane & Thrane, suggestions?

3) The best autopilot money can buy. I will often single-hand, so I like the word "redundancy", very much.

So, yeah. That about sums it up, for now. The most water, fuel, juice, and freezer storage available, as well as the best state-of-the-art electronics.

Anyway, nice forum "yawl" have here. Would very much welcome suggestions. Even snide comments much enjoyed! My skin is not thin. And, please note that I currently don't have a Hinckley and am a few years away from even looking for one (i.e., now saving $$$$).


John

Frankly everything you mention in your desires pushes is a little more away from sail to trawler. Not saying you can't put all that on a sailboat, but will take larger than you're talking about and will be very much against simplification most sailors want and against speed.

We want all the things you mention. We don't have a sailboat. Now you could still have a smaller sailboat for local day sailing.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Greetings matey,

First things first... 40 feet is not big enough especially if you choose a narrow/hourglass boat like a Hinkley.

Now your questions.... first batch:

1. Size of your water tank will determine the needed hourly capacity of your water maker. I chose a Dessalator AC/DC Duo 100 liter/hour. Its biggest advantage is that it can be run on 24V DC or 220 V AC. I have big battery capacity.
2. You need the space to install these... not a given if you go for Hinkley. If you can, either get an engine driven compressor or a keel cooler. I chose the keel cooler to avoid running the engine
3. Not necessary... if you can motor at the limiting hull speed, you got enough oomph. In the case of a 50 footer, 80HP is enough.
4. See comment 2 above.
5. Big battery bank again is space dependent. I have a Onan 6.5 KW genset and 500W solar panels on a gantry which allows me to use it as Davits when at anchor. This is a personal choice but as we aim to RTW, the dinghy will be our "daily driver" and having easy access is VERY important. Up to you... its called one of the many compromises you will have to make...

Batch 2:

1. I just went through this exercise and chose Raymarine kit with a A98 plotter at the nav station and an A75 at the helm, all WIFI linked including my iPad. I can control all with the iPad.... Instruments are i70 from Raymarine and I chose integrated AIS A & B, forward and Sidescan sonar (latter not useable yet because there is no suitable transducer for the Side Scanner ... will be a retro fit later), a SHD radar with 12 KW power and 4 foot scanner. I also installed a second AP (AP 400 hydraulic) to backup the existing electric Ray 7000. I also installed an Icom 801E with Pactor IV and Sailmail. I also have a Delorme InReach for Sat Comm. We also have a EPIRB and 2 PLB's to be worn by crew when working the deck. If you want to cruise safely, prepare for the worst... BOTTOM LINE? Costs lots of moolah.
2. Part answer above
3. See above.

As an opinion... your requirements will be very hard to meet with even a 50+ Hinkley. Just not big enough...

[Duct Tape]

Pretty to look, amazingly well put together but mostly quite impractical for your intended use. I have spent quite a bit of time on Hinckleys 48,52,59 and 70 and sailed over 20000 miles on them.
First thing you notice when you step on one is how small they feel. The 51 you mentioned is the smallest 51 footer you will ever see...tanks are tiny, very little stowage and generally poor access to bits that need access.They are very weight sensitive. Increasing tankage and loading up with gear ruins their performance.
These are wet boats which after a few days huddled under the dodger can get under your skin...the helms are quite heavy and you need to reef early and there is no place for a dingy.
So all in all yes, I would sell my soul for one.

[PortClydeMe]

Hi Greg and BandB,


Thanks much for your quick, and cogent, replies!



“First I doubt 40 foot will actually be large enough for all that. You are going to need more space to store everything.”


Greg, have to agree, and that has crossed my mind more than once. If need be, I’d be willing to step up to a 50-footer, but I’d honestly be more comfortable single-handing a 42. Either way, I’d need the helm set up correctly and also need to make use of roller jib and mast furling to limit the time spent alone out on deck in the rough stuff. As for the internal square footage, the Hinckley Sou’wester’s beam and traditional layout sure do present obstacles to what I want. Oh, and I forgot to mention in my original post that I also want a good quality clothes washer/dryer combo, as well as “anytime” all-cabin AC/heating. I know, I know. I’m pushing the envelope! On the 42-footer, I keep eyeing the berth just aft of the nav station as one of the few possible locals to custom install a dedicated freezer and the washer, both hidden in custom $$$ Southwest Harbor joinery. As for generator and water maker, I’m looking further after, maybe somewhere in the cockpit storage areas? Mmmmmmm. A dilemma it surely is.

“But a few details are needed. Like how much bandwith do you need versus want. Satellite internet is possible even high speed internet, but it will cost an arm and a leg.”
My private business involves receiving and sending heavy MB MS PowerPoint & Word files via e-mail multiple times a day. Moreover, I need to have glitch-free, heavy-bandwidth Internet access whenever needed. Not always, but always when needed. I’ve been searching on-line, yet still cannot get a solid fix on what that cost is going to set me back per month. The hardware alone is not chicken feed, that’s for sure, but with the right accountant… well, you know. All told, the monthly satellite tab could very well turn out to be the biggest long-term stinger to my projected yearly overhead.
“Large fuel tanks and a decent sized water maker is pretty easy, but having a water heater on all the time will consume a ton of power. Even scaling back to an on demand unit would make a world of difference.”


Points well taken. As for water heating, any advice on who makes the best on-demand unit? Also, any opinions on a premium water maker for 2 adults, sometimes 4? I ultimately want many more gallons per day than needed. That way, my Japanese Admiral – who loves her bathing – will be smiling.

__________________

“Frankly everything you mention in your desires pushes is a little more away from sail to trawler. Not saying you can't put all that on a sailboat, but will take larger than you're talking about and will be very much against simplification most sailors want and against speed. We want all the things you mention. We don't have a sailboat. Now you could still have a smaller sailboat for local day sailing.”


Hi BandB, yes, I know. My father always eyed Grand Banks 42-footers, yet I want to go the sailing route. The other day I was looking on-line at a mid-‘80s Hank Hinckley-designed 42-foot pilot house ketch currently for sale in Seattle. It’s a nice boat, and set up for offshore excursions. Also, the size of the pilot house offers possible spaces for the extra items I want, yet not so sure I want to stand all day while piloting at the outside helm just aft of the mizzen mast, straining to look over the pilot house to navigate. It has a traditional flag-blue Hinckley hull with nice lines, and it does have a full keel, yet that pilot house is both a deal helper and breaker at the same time. The Hood roller-furled jib, main, and mizzen sails are a plus for me.

Hmmmm. What to do? I want a 42 foot Hinckley, but I also want all the extra goodies to make me and wifey happy, and without changing the Sou’wester looks, both inside and out. Kind of a cool nautical puzzle. Like a Hinckley-Rubic’s Cube.



Bottom line? Can't a man have his cake, and eat it too?

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Duct Tape

Pretty to look, amazingly well put together but mostly quite impractical for your intended use. I have spent quite a bit of time on Hinckleys 48,52,59 and 70 and sailed over 20000 miles on them.
First thing you notice when you step on one is how small they feel. The 51 you mentioned is the smallest 51 footer you will ever see...tanks are tiny, very little stowage and generally poor access to bits that need access.They are very weight sensitive. Increasing tankage and loading up with gear ruins their performance.
These are wet boats which after a few days huddled under the dodger can get under your skin...the helms are quite heavy and you need to reef early and there is no place for a dingy.
So all in all yes, I would sell my soul for one.

Haha! Hey now! Who want's to be dry, anyway?

Picking the wrong tool for the job is not for amateurs, it requires a finely honed and professional set of skills, like mine!

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

Greetings matey,

First things first... 40 feet is not big enough especially if you choose a narrow/hourglass boat like a Hinkley.

Now your questions.... first batch:

1. Size of your water tank will determine the needed hourly capacity of your water maker. I chose a Dessalator AC/DC Duo 100 liter/hour. Its biggest advantage is that it can be run on 24V DC or 220 V AC. I have big battery capacity.
2. You need the space to install these... not a given if you go for Hinkley. If you can, either get an engine driven compressor or a keel cooler. I chose the keel cooler to avoid running the engine
3. Not necessary... if you can motor at the limiting hull speed, you got enough oomph. In the case of a 50 footer, 80HP is enough.
4. See comment 2 above.
5. Big battery bank again is space dependent. I have a Onan 6.5 KW genset and 500W solar panels on a gantry which allows me to use it as Davits when at anchor. This is a personal choice but as we aim to RTW, the dinghy will be our "daily driver" and having easy access is VERY important. Up to you... its called one of the many compromises you will have to make...

Batch 2:

1. I just went through this exercise and chose Raymarine kit with a A98 plotter at the nav station and an A75 at the helm, all WIFI linked including my iPad. I can control all with the iPad.... Instruments are i70 from Raymarine and I chose integrated AIS A & B, forward and Sidescan sonar (latter not useable yet because there is no suitable transducer for the Side Scanner ... will be a retro fit later), a SHD radar with 12 KW power and 4 foot scanner. I also installed a second AP (AP 400 hydraulic) to backup the existing electric Ray 7000. I also installed an Icom 801E with Pactor IV and Sailmail. I also have a Delorme InReach for Sat Comm. We also have a EPIRB and 2 PLB's to be worn by crew when working the deck. If you want to cruise safely, prepare for the worst... BOTTOM LINE? Costs lots of moolah.
2. Part answer above
3. See above.

As an opinion... your requirements will be very hard to meet with even a 50+ Hinkley. Just not big enough...

Ahoy!, Good Sir. Thanks a bunch for your very detailed reply. Excellent info. I really want a Sou'wester 42 (MkII, if poss), yet maybe I need to call the "new" folks running the show in Southwest Harbor to see if they have any ideas about how to shoehorn-in what I want without, as Duct Tape wisely pointed out, "ruining the performance", which actually hadn't crossed my mind yet.

Thanks again for the great info! Much appreciated.

[Stumble]

What's the budget? The only way I can envision shoe horning all this into a 40' boat is by gutting the interior and having a custom layout done to your specs. A small 40' like the Hinkley 42' just isn't going to have the type of room needed for this equipment. As with most things in boating it really comes down to money.

What you are trying to do is squeeze the types of system normally found on a mid 50's boat into a 40' and while doable it's going to get expensive quick.

Just ballpark guesses, let's say the hull is $250k, add another 100k in interior refit, $50k in electrical/water systems, 15-30k in satellite internet, 50k in new electronics, and an additional 50k for the unforeseen. You now have upwards of $500k invested in a boat worth around $200k. Since you will take a hit on resale for the custom layout.

Or buy a bigger boat like the Irwin 54' (I am using this as an example since I know them well) for $350,000 add say $75k for systems and your done, with a boat worth about $350k. You will also have a lot more room, and a less cramped space.

[dpddj]

Living in Maine and working in the marine industry I know the Morris and Hinkley lines as well. Well made, solid, dependable, expensive boats. Service yards see them coming and they think $$$.
Me? To do what you are thinking about I'd be looking at a motorsailer in the 50' range.
But then, you know what they say about opinions.
Here's to success in your quest.

[Telemark43]

You might take a slightly different tack... I agree with all the comments about the size and suitability of Hinckley (owning a Bermuda 40) for your desires... with the sole exception of appearance ! Yes, looks great !!

On the practical side as to use. If you stay coast wise, all the marina's on the east coast support all your desires that are NOT found on board. i.e. laundry, WiFi, water supply, shore side showers, groceries and freezers !! If you consider you make two trips a month of two days duration between marinas... these items become much more manageable...just a change in life style.

If you go off shore, cross an ocean or two, you then have something approximating a month or less (hopefully) shore to shore where again the marinas supply those comforts you so desire.

... and, you don't have to compromise the functioning of a beautiful vessel !!

Since you are going to change your life style, change it.

[Scout 30]

Just remember, it's not the builder you grew up with. They sold the company back in the '90s. Hinckleys were never designed to be live aboards. They are meant to be rich people's toys. If you really want one live on land & get a Bermuda 40, still their best boat, in my mind, & one of the prettiest boat ever made.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Just remember, it's not the builder you grew up with. They sold the company back in the '90s. Hinckleys were never designed to be live aboards. They are meant to be rich people's toys. If you really want one live on land & get a Bermuda 40, still their best boat, in my mind, & one of the prettiest boat ever made.

I agree! A Hinckley is almost uniquely unsuitable for your purposes.

Morris make a retro cruiser (I think it's the 52) which would be vastly better for you. Light, fast and full of pretty wood, in the Hinkley tradition, but with modern systems. And gorgeous to look at.

The tankage and stowage is modest, but will be ok for coastal sailing. You do not want a 1000 liters of diesel tankage if you don't need it, believe me. Hauling all that fuel around will slow you right down.

If you're really going to cross oceans, then forget the retro part and find a modern cruising boat, preferably European, like a Halberg Rassy, Contest, Oyster, etc.

You will have plenty to fix and do without varnishing brightwork all the time.

[skipmac]

I will assume you are actually serious and not just pulling our legs. There is no way, no how, ever, at all you will get all that stuff in a 40-42' boat and still have room for a person inside as well. Even in the 50' range Hinkleys you will be pushing it.

Most of the questions and requirements you asked have been well answered by others but I'll add one thing. No point in getting a giant engine in a sailboat. They are displacement boats and after a certain point a bunch of extra horsepower will give you nothing at all except take up more room and add a lot of weight.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I will assume you are actually serious and not just pulling our legs. There is no way, no how, ever, at all you will get all that stuff in a 40-42' boat and still have room for a person inside as well. Even in the 50' range Hinkleys you will be pushing it.

Most of the questions and requirements you asked have been well answered by others but I'll add one thing. No point in getting a giant engine in a sailboat. They are displacement boats and after a certain point a bunch of extra horsepower will give you nothing at all except take up more room and add a lot of weight.

It's not good for a diesel engine to run it all the time at too small a fraction of its designed output, so oversize with care.

On the other hand, if you want to motor or motorsail upwind in strong conditions, you may need more power than the standard formulae indicate. I found myself wishing for a bit more power (and/or a bigger prop) in my boat after a few legs motorsailing against Baltic gales -- and I have 100 horsepower.