Guns on board. Yes/no

[sailorboy1]

I love people who have these plans that basically piss off the pirates etc., who then will back off, recover, and did come back at you with a different intent than to just catch and rob you!

[softdown]

Originally Posted by skipmac

If you have bad guys with guns close enough for you to spray them with fuel from a hose you are already screwed. Way sooner than you can spray them with fuel they will spray you with bullets and at that range the odds of hitting the target (you) with a gun increase dramatically.

Same thing with any "chemical reaction". The only way it will be effective defense will be with some kind of long range delivery system which is not available to civilians.

I was assuming they would board the boat. I doubt they always come in with guns blazing.....anymore that house burglars come in with guns blazing.

[Jdege]

I think we should be cautious of assuming that there is only one threat.

Being chased down on the open seas may be far less common than being boarded at anchor.

[DeborahLee]

I have read stories where boaters have been approached by pirates and when they appeared with a gun the pirates have decided to look for easier prey. Try goggling for these articles which may give some insight. The AK is one that everyone knows when they see it. The different types of ammo for it is great like armor piercing incendiaries (available) takes a motor right out. Also puts 2 holes in boat with one bullet and starts fire as it goes. Then there is Dragons Breath (available) for the 12 gauge. Turns it into a 100 yd flame thrower. When someone's boat catches fire all they want to do is make friends.

[DeborahLee]

Remember a .357 arrives at 3700 ft/sec. The coast guard takes how long??

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by softdown

I was assuming they would board the boat. I doubt they always come in with guns blazing.....anymore that house burglars come in with guns blazing.

Based on the majority (there have been exceptions) of the reports from cruisers that have been boarded you are correct. They don't usually come in with guns blazing but they always come in with guns ready. Pull out your own gun, try to spray them with fuel or take any other hostile action and the blazing will begin immediately.

Way faster than you could hose them down with fuel they will put multiple rounds into your boat and probably you as well. Most probably, at the first sudden move of any kind you make, the bad guys will open fire. They could stand off about 100' or so, way out of range of any "chemical defense" and blow you apart at their leisure.

Ever hear the old saying, don't bring a knife to a gun fight?

[mako]

126 posts in 3 days. Yep, the TROLL won this gunfight

[HighTemp]

Originally Posted by DeborahLee

Remember a .357 arrives at 3700 ft/sec. The coast guard takes how long??

Huh? Who loads your ammo?

The typical velocity of a .357 magnum is around 1200 ft/sec with a small grain / hot load maxing out around 1900 ft/sec. A .357 SIG averages 1400 ft. / Sec with the hottest load hitting 2400 ft/sec. Of course we are speaking of handguns, since these are primarily handgun calibers.

But to your point, when seconds count, help is usually minutes or hours away.

I enjoy reading these threads, but my position aligns with the " Firearms are a personal decision" crowd. If you choose not to have weapons aboard, that is fine by me. If you choose to carry, I have no problem with that as well. Just be sure to follow all applicable laws, and get some maritime firearm training.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by DeborahLee

Remember a .357 arrives at 3700 ft/sec...

Are you quite sure about that?

[GrowleyMonster]

I don't doubt that some few attacks have been prevented, due to the presence of a single armed defender. However I would not count on that too heavily. A single armed man of unknown skill level or ability to kill without hesitation is not a very credible threat to a boat full of armed men who are all on the same page, morally and psychologically. You display a weapon. They all aim at you. You aim. They fire. On full auto. You are toast. You need multiple determined and (by our normal standards) bloodthirsty individuals with a good bit of training, armored firing positions for the shooters, and practical, situationally appropriate weapons. Or just DON'T GO THERE.

There are VERY few situations, I am sure, in which a yachtsman cannot avoid sailing into the waters in question. Those who do so anyway, IMHO, are comitting the highest level of folly. Particularly so, if the yacht is defended by a single person.

As others have pointed out, stopping in any African port on the way, with guns aboard, has a high likelyhood of rendering the armed yachtsman disarmed and helpless, possibly boatless, penniless, and in prison. The rule of law is not respected to the degree to which most of us on this board are accustomed. Most of Africa is just one big kleptocracy. Don't get me wrong... I love Africa, from the Cape to the Med, but the greedy, thieving officials at every level totally spoil it and as a foreigner without connections, you have no defense against them. So arriving at Pirate Alley with all your guns and ammo is problematic in and of itself. Going clockwise around Africa means transiting the Suez with weapons, which will meet you after you clear, you HOPE, after traveling in bond, overland. Trust me, this voyage is NOT practical, nor safe, as things stand at present.

[softdown]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Based on the majority (there have been exceptions) of the reports from cruisers that have been boarded you are correct. They don't usually come in with guns blazing but they always come in with guns ready. Pull out your own gun, try to spray them with fuel or take any other hostile action and the blazing will begin immediately.

Way faster than you could hose them down with fuel they will put multiple rounds into your boat and probably you as well. Most probably, at the first sudden move of any kind you make, the bad guys will open fire. They could stand off about 100' or so, way out of range of any "chemical defense" and blow you apart at their leisure.

Ever hear the old saying, don't bring a knife to a gun fight?

I don't think you are visualizing a possible success for the sailor. Lets say the sailor goes to his v-berth and dons a gas mask while grabbing a couple chemicals available from the grocery store. Easy enough.

The pirates boarding proves malicious intent in my book. Mix the chemicals and the pirates collapse. Notify the authorities who are surely only brief minutes away when needed.

I don't know if this is the best way to handle pirates but I like it better than begging for mercy. Pirates can pop up most anywhere. I know a guy who knew a cruising couple that were killed somewhere off of Asia. The couple were unceremoniously dumped in the ocean as I recall.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by softdown

Lets say the sailor goes to his v-berth and dons a gas mask while grabbing a couple chemicals available from the grocery store. Easy enough.

The pirates boarding proves malicious intent in my book. Mix the chemicals and the pirates collapse. Notify the authorities who are surely only brief minutes away when needed.

Sounds like a TV show... drama type, not reality type.

Quickly-mixed chemicals causing boarders to collapse sounds like a McGyver plot. "Brief minutes" is fantasy.

Or maybe you're note was meant tongue-in-cheek?

-Chris

[softdown]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Sounds like a TV show... drama type, not reality type.

Quickly-mixed chemicals causing boarders to collapse sounds like a McGyver plot. "Brief minutes" is fantasy.

Or maybe you're note was meant tongue-in-cheek?

-Chris

It is extremely easy to cause more than a collapse when mixing chemicals. Reactions can be a glorious thing to behold. Sorry I can't elaborate on which chemicals to mix with Big Brother looking over everybody's shoulder. They may be widely available cleaning agents.

Public shooters are generally just uneducated as well as bat **** crazy.

The brief minutes was sarcasm.....sort of.

[model 10]

[QUOTE=GrowleyMonster;2404896]ituationally appropriate weapons. Or just DON'T GO THERE.

There are VERY few situations, I am sure, in which a yachtsman cannot avoid sailing into the waters in question. Those who do so anyway, IMHO, are comitting the highest level of folly. Particularly so, if the yacht is defended by a single person.


The western Caribbean has several dangerous areas that you really can't avoid. I don't think that a passage through these areas is "the highest level of folly". You can make some choices in route and timing and be pretty safe. Now cruising the Gulf of Fonseca on the west side of CA would be interesting, Olie North country. We were afraid to go in there.

[Padastty]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

A gun is like a penis .... pull it out at the wrong time and you're screwed

Pull it out at the right time and you get screwed also. Penis that is.