Ferro Cement Hulls ?

[MattDamon2927]

Thanks for all of the input to this thread, I finally bought my Samson C Deuce 54 LOA and have to say she is the most beautiful looking boat I have ever owned or sailed upon. Rightly or wrongly, in answer to the reply above, I did indeed use this thread as a starting point for gathering enough information to make the purchase.
The first thing that hit me upon boarding her (after seeing her beautiful lines out of the water) was the sheer solid feel she has. The surveyor searched everywhere for rust/voids/damage etc but admitted defeat in the end and decided she was one of the best he had seen. We even had an offer for a cheap slip in front of some guys restaraunt - she has so much character!
As I think I mentioned before, thanks to all of the people who have bad mouthed ferro boats throughout time - I would never have been able to afford a boat like this if it had not been for you guys keeping the prices down. Only time and distance will tell now, and if she runs the circum-navigation planned for this year, I will consider it a success and post the outcome here (if she sinks and I survive I'll post that too!).
One thing that came up in my survey was to enlarge the run outs in the gunwales - any ideas on how to do this - maybe a grinder? And finally, has anybody bought the book on ferro boats/building/repairs on the main website and was it any good?
see you all out there - leaving LA to run south this fall.
James

[osirissail]

All the different hull building materials - FerroCement, Fiberglass, steel, aluminum, and wood are subject to being badly constructed or nicely constructed. You can get a "gem" or a "lemon" in any of the different materials. Most of the thread is about how to find a reasonably good deal in F.C.
- - The only really major wrinkle in F.C. is the insurance problem. It is nearly impossible to find a reputable insurance carrier for F.C. Emphasis on "reputable" - there are insurance companies that will sell you a policy but collecting on a loss is very difficult to impossible. If you are only a local sailor, no big deal. But to travel and find a boatyard and/or marina that will let you in without insurance is getting very difficult - but not totally impossible. You are just more limited than you non-FC friends.

[David M]

Originally Posted by GreyMarauder

One thing that came up in my survey was to enlarge the run outs in the gunwales - any ideas on how to do this - maybe a grinder? And finally, has anybody bought the book on ferro boats/building/repairs on the main website and was it any good?
see you all out there - leaving LA to run south this fall.
James

A jackhammer? That's how concrete is usually busted up. Just kidding. Seriously, perhaps a small electric powered chisel? A diamond tipped hole cutter?

Congrats on your new boat!

[StoneAge]

Best way to enlarge your scuppers is to use David's suggestion of a diamond tipped hole saw.. Well you CAN use a bi-metal blade if you want to throw it away after. You'll probably get the holes you need out of 1 or 2 saws. But you'd only need 1 diamond tipped one and it would last forever.. Problem is they can be very expensive.

Carbide tipped is good too. At any rate the saw will make a clean cut - use a masonry bit as your guide. Cut the hole at least 2/3'ds the size of the saw. Height of your scupper is the diameter of saw you want to use.

You now have core samples of your hull.

Fair the holes in to the rest of the scuppers and then get some very thin epoxy - Soaks in really well. Industrial Formulators S-1 Sealer is a good one - Don't know if you can get it where you are, Probably. Just make sure you get one that runs thin when mixed. Seal the new scuppers edges with this epoxy and thicken as you add coats. This will fair the surface and protect any exposed steel that resulted from your scupper enlargement.

The one thing I see on Ferro boats and is a MAJOR cause of rust streaks is the builder didn't seal off the gunnel before adding a cap rail. Some don't add anything at all. Makes for a nasty looking boat so make sure they get sealed.

Congrats on your boat James. I hope we get to meet in the very near future.

Best.
Stone Age

[MattDamon2927]

Hi, and thank you both for your replies. I will get to work on the scuppers now (as well as all of the other details...!).

You got it spot on StoneAge on the the lack of sealing under the rail at the top of the scuppers. It is the only part of the boat that does indeed look nasty! Any specific advice?

Most of the work is what I would consider routine maintenance, except for my only other issue: The toerail (wood) around the base of the cabin tops is poor. It looks like a terrible spot to collect water to me. Am I being soft or can I not just get rid of the wood and epoxy the whole thing into a small gradient for the water to run away from the cabin onto the deck?

There is a Ferro owners group on here if any of you are interested you know...?

I have a new email address on my profile by the way all

James

[StoneAge]

Use the same technique to seal up the gunnels.. You might want to clean them up first though.. Do you need to replace the caprails or are there any there?

As far as the "toerail" it is at the base of the cabin sides at deck level? Your decks ought to have a cant to them already for water drainage. As far as losing the wood - sure. The carlins ought to be about 4" up the cabin sides, sandwiched between the house. So there would be no problem just sealing it with good polyurethane caulk... But remember - that type of caulk causes cancer in California, so glove up. Check the bottom of the cabinsides before you start your sealing though... It may have some issues too. (common because of the join there and 20 - 30 years of service)

Epoxy to repair the wood (if it's not too far gone) is a good idea, but it won't stick for long to the concrete deck. (unless your deck is glass over ply, of course.. It very well could be.. In that case Epoxy the Be'je.. out of it :-)..

Talk to ya soon.

[NEWFJLE]

I recently tried to cut a 50mm hole in a reinforced concrete tank. Tried masonary drill in a hammer drill which barely made a dent. Hired a tungsten carbide tipped concrete hole saw not much better. In the end used a hammer and chisel. Best method would be to get a commercial outfit that drills concrete with diamond tipped saw. I have used this in a commercial building and cuts a perfect hole. Will cost about $200 -$300.

[Borealis]

StoneAge hit it right on with the gunnels, its standard construction technique to lay a piece of channel iron along the top edge of gunnel to protect the cement edge and ends of metal reinforcement. My boat came with no wood toe rails and the metal cap was rusted severely in places and showing structural metal beneath the cap. Luckily the gunnel is about 3" tall and the hull/ deck has not suffered from crumbling and corrosion. I am now in repairing and cappin g the gunnels with Sapele wood.

To repair the gunnels I sawz-all'ed the mishapen and corroded steel pieces away, then took a grinder to the crumbly and exposed metal armiture to get rid of the ugliness. Once this boat cancer was removed and properlycleaned and prepped I used 20mil pipewrap tape and formed barriers on either side of the ground out gunnels and then filled the voids with epoxy. The tape held the epoxy in place as I poured it in.

For paint I use Amron or International steel ship primer (2 part) as a base and then put my top coat (Industrial paint from Benjamin Moore) over that. Is excellent paint primer.

For the Sapele caprails I constructed in 3 parts, inner, outer and top cap with galvanized bolts holding the inner and outer boards against the gunnel. I will post photos as it has really given a fin edge to the yacht. Am still constructing top caps.

I am concerned about the problems of wood tendency to rot against cement and am open to suggestions on how to best prevent it.

[isy43]

Hi all im new to this site & ive read all 25 pages so far , im looking to trade up to a ferro yacht , so a question if i may.. i'm looking at a 49ft ferro ketch built in Sydney between 1972 & 1988 called "Absconder" designed by a naval architect JOHN ROETHAT & was wondering if it rang a bell with anyone from Australia or Sydney.
Regards Isabell
isy43@hotmail.com

[clockwork orange]

Ive never heard of the designer but he has a good eye,that boat has very nice proportions and sheerline.Keep use informed.
Steve.

[4900bruce]

Borealis I Saturate all timber with epoxy before assembly on boat or you can saturate timber with ever dure. both treatments seal out moisture.Ever dure has better penetration but is more expensive.
I had boat out of water last weekend for antifoul .I also pluged 3 through hulls and put in 3 new ones. to cut holes in hull I use 6 mill masonary drill and hammer drill,drill holes close together (called chain drilling) to make outer line of desired finale hole.
once completed pull out by hand inner part of hole .trim rough edges of hole gently with hammer.cut any straggling wire .I then coat exposied ferro with epoxy.You may be able to enlarge scuppers this way.Good luck.

[Borealis]

Thanks Bruce, I will follow up on that epoxy for my final interior wooden supports and facings against the cement flanges.

I have two books that are good, for Samson owners, 'How to build a Ferr-Cement Boat', by John Samson at Samson marine Design Enterprises LTD, 1968.
A better book, 'Ferro-Cement', Design and Application. By Bruce Bingham, published by Cornell maritime Press, 1974. Outstanding book, my freind uses it for ideas on his 50' wood ketch. May be able to find thru library (at library just ask for them to order a book and usually they can find it somewhere in the archives of the national system.) 'Ferro-Cement' should be in the library of all FC boat owners, I'm giving this back to my freind but will be aquiring one for myself.

[Carouse]

Well I have owned a Hartley RORC 32 for nearly 10 years now,I love this boat.Every one loves my boat.although sometimes they go a bit quiet when they find out what its constructed of? My ferro cant be that bad whenyou get a letter dropped in the cockpit from the aust classic yacht association inviting you to join there association and come racing with them,as for mantainance,my boat needs about the same amount as a timber,steel or glass boat,I know this as I haul out beside them each year.I realise my boat is one of the good ones built but so are a lot of them,there are also lots[and lots] of crap ones[every one knows that] So can all you ferro knockers out there get over it and appreciate
the good ones still floating after all those years,their part of our maritime history so lets preserve them as long as there insurable.

[osirissail]

There are a lot of excellent boats out there made from wood and/or ferro-cement. Unfortunately, with the consolidation of marinas and boatyards by new large corporations it is difficult to find a boatyard that will haul them. Even in the Caribbean now mega-corporations are buying up the older marinas and boatyards which means you must now have insurance in order to haul your boat for maintenance. Getting insurance for some of the older hull types is increasingly difficult which results in the choice of boatyards being severely restricted.

[Borealis]

On the note of insuring your boat. This is fairly unorthodox. I was told cement boats are not insurable before I bought it. I bought it anyway. I was told to get a survey, I surveyed my own (over a 6 months period). I surveyed my own becasue I didn't find anyone who knew as much as I did about cement boats (which was very little).

I joined the Port Hadlock Yacht Club prior to launching it and insurance was required. So...I contacted the insurance company and they needed a survey report...so...I created one. Now before you fall to the floor gasping for air let me say this, I surveyed my own boat and I produce inspection reports for a living. My business is to inspect steel and cement water holding tanks from the inside out while full of water. Also I had the previous survey report from 10 years earlier to reference.

the insurance agent told me it was the best survey report she has seen and said she would recommend me to other clients. I was honest in the report and indicated the deficiencies. My agent insured the boat for what I asked and told me that my rate will go down as the deficiencies are repaired or improved.

Just a success story for the casual reading, no great words of wisdom except that, 'where theres a will theres a way'. Oh and, I maintain my insurance.