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BandB · 27-12-2017, 13:31

On new boats, it's fairly easy to know what's reasonable to offer. The normal pricing structure is known.

However, on used boats, it's just really a meeting of the minds that is necessary. There's no established right or wrong.

On used cars, you have established book values but they don't even tell the whole story. I use to know a very successful used car dealer who drove up and down country roads, and even traveling on vacation took the back roads and always carried a lot of cash with him. Every nice looking car he saw with a for sale sign on it, he'd stop and end up making an offer. He had to buy at a wholesale price so a lot of his offers stood no chance. But if one in five worked out, he was very happy.

Island Time O25 · 27-12-2017, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

On new boats, it's fairly easy to know what's reasonable to offer. The normal pricing structure is known.

However, on used boats, it's just really a meeting of the minds that is necessary. There's no established right or wrong.

On used cars, you have established book values but they don't even tell the whole story. I use to know a very successful used car dealer who drove up and down country roads, and even traveling on vacation took the back roads and always carried a lot of cash with him. Every nice looking car he saw with a for sale sign on it, he'd stop and end up making an offer. He had to buy at a wholesale price so a lot of his offers stood no chance. But if one in five worked out, he was very happy.

This is a great strategy from a business POV. But for one's personal use most of us tend to overpay if we fall in love with something we wish to have unless we a) do our homework and b) can keep a poker face during negotiations. The person who blinks first usually gets the short end of the stick.

john61ct · 27-12-2017, 18:02

In any transactional relationship subject to negotiation, the party most willing to shrug and walk away has a tremendous advantage.

Rule 1 is don't fall in love.

Rule 2 is don't (reveal that you) have a deadline

Yes you can "act as if" to some degree, but it really helps if you can muster the willingness to actually do it.

geoleo · 27-12-2017, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah, I hear you... it's a fine line for sure. But, give the reasoning for your offer to the Broker. He has a relationship with the seller. If you say:" there are two other comparable boats, one just sold after 1.5 years at $xxxx" He may say to the seller, "I've been looking around and with the age of your added equipment and the other boats on the market.. you might consider a counter offer of $xxxx" A good broker must be a diplomat.
The reality though is, a few offers and time will wear the seller down. If you are in the right time frame you may get a deal. If you are first, you likely wont. A couple of brokers have said to me "the first offer is the best one you will get". I think they were right.

Then again, if dealing direct with the seller you might as well give him your reasoning, you aren't buying it at top dollar anyway! (Are you?)

Interestingly, I bought my house in a strange way. I had narrowed my search down to two places. One I liked the land best, the other I liked the house best. I couldn't decide. So I told the broker "I can't decide, so I'm making an offer on one, if it's not accepted, I'm offering on the other one before responding to any counter offer." The first offer was rejected. The second was accepted with no counter. This displays what you can do if you DO NOT get emotionally involved. :>)

Mr Cheech is correct (again) I recently sold my boat for 84k. Took 3 years after my shoulder went bad. During this time I kept pouring $ into it with hired help. At end of first year I had a offer of 87k. I turned it down spent another 12k, second year I had another offer of 87K-turned it down, spent another 18k, end of third year I had offer of 84K took it! so I spent 30k after first offer which was best offer. However I did have fun fixing it up and blowing money !!!

kmacdonald · 27-12-2017, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I don't support these tactics but this is a true story .......

Estate Sale, 38' trawler. Listed at $96k (fair price in my opinion)

Fella I know offers 20k, turned down.
2 month later offers 22k, turned down.

Over the next few months he gets a couple of friends to put in a few fake offers of between 18- 20k, all turned down.

A month or so after the fake offers he put in an offer of 15k ...... it was accepted !

How Much is She Worth ?

I have used that strategy to flip houses. It works. Sure, it's different than buying for yourself where the is an emotional attachment in what you are negotiating for. That's the reason not to get attached to any one boat you are interested in. Get a great deal or move on to another boat. There are 125K+ boats for sale and I bet less than 25% of them will ever sell. Don't be bashful about low offers. There are of course exceptions. Some boats are in demand and command reasonable price. I am looking to purchase one of two models and there are none for sale with the keel I'm looking for. Unfortunately there are others looking for the same thing making low ball offers a waste of time. I may end up settling for something else at a much better value.

robert sailor · 27-12-2017, 19:59

Lots of homework goes in to a couples choice for a cruising boat, it's certainly never a case of multiple low ball offers on different boats. This may make sense for someone in the business but not a couple looking to buy. They decide on the type, mono or cat then they decide on the size and if it's aft or center cockpit. Once they get to this stage it's not leaving much choice and they usually shop like hell to find one in decent shape roughly in their price range and only if they can't find anything will they change their criteria. If they run in to a real good example of the boat they are looking for then they are highly lively to put in a fair offer and not risk a lowball. So yes it is an emotional decision close to buying a home. The ideal outcome is when both buyer and seller feel they did ok considering.

john61ct · 28-12-2017, 08:24

The ideal outcome for me as buyer, is the seller crying into their soup for years to come, regretting that they were forced by circumstances to sell their immaculate treasure for a tenth of its true value.

robert sailor · 28-12-2017, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by john61ct

The ideal outcome for me as buyer, is the seller crying into their soup for years to come, regretting that they were forced by circumstances to sell their immaculate treasure for a tenth of its true value.

While there will always be the exception it is rare indeed for a real nice boat to be sold for peanuts. The really smart buyers are looking for boats that are in excellent condition and they know if they can find one and pay basic book value they are way ahead of the game in everyway. The real tough part is actually finding a boat like that and boats in excellent condition are also on the rare side. I've seen many of the boats that were bought cheap and in most cases it was worth exactly what they paid and probably less.

Paul L · 28-12-2017, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by john61ct

The ideal outcome for me as buyer, is the seller crying into their soup for years to come, regretting that they were forced by circumstances to sell their immaculate treasure for a tenth of its true value.

More likely that you would be 'in your soup for years' still looking for the unbelievable deal instead of off cruising. Life and health is too short to put off what you want to do when you are ready to do it.

robert sailor · 28-12-2017, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L

More likely that you would be 'in your soup for years' still looking for the unbelievable deal instead of off cruising. Life and health is too short to put off what you want to do when you are ready to do it.

sailpower · 28-12-2017, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L

More likely that you would be 'in your soup for years' still looking for the unbelievable deal instead of off cruising. Life and health is too short to put off what you want to do when you are ready to do it.

I don't think John is in danger of buying a boat any time soon although he is happy to tell how to do it.

sailpower · 28-12-2017, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by john61ct

The ideal outcome for me as buyer, is the seller crying into their soup for years to come, regretting that they were forced by circumstances to sell their immaculate treasure for a tenth of its true value.

So, how will you square that with all the fem "values" you have been posting if the seller is female?

alansmith · 28-12-2017, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankysailor

This makes the assumption that people are rational in negotiations. We are not. Even when you think you are being cool headed and rational, you are not. It is human nature. And it turns out more often than not we act against our own interest even.

Cranky, no truer words ever said about the sales transaction. It is impossible to keep emotional distance at bay.

geoleo · 28-12-2017, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by john61ct

The ideal outcome for me as buyer, is the seller crying into their soup for years to come, regretting that they were forced by circumstances to sell their immaculate treasure for a tenth of its true value.

whoa Johnny-that kind of goes against your worldview.