Ariel 26 as a camping liveaboard?

[john61ct]

I've come across negative comments about the Ariel 26, in comparison with

Tartan 27, Triton 28, and Bristol 26 / 27

in the context of my thread here http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ts-193354.html

These may have been wrt living accommodation rather than sailing issues, things like layout design, headroom?

Obviously not in relation to the Almost Free pricing of under $2000 including the trailer, and I realize few people would want to live in one fulltime. . .

I'm asking mainly because that trailer could push me to start now, rather than my so-far planned years away.

[Paul L]

I owned an Ariel for a few years - way back when. Their PHRF rating is about 261, so if you can live with a not very lively sailor and deal with the outboard in a well, then it's accommodations aren't bad for the era.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I owned an Ariel for a few years - way back when. Their PHRF rating is about 261, so if you can live with a not very lively sailor and deal with the outboard in a well, then it's accommodations aren't bad for the era.

For a camping/liveaboard sailboat, the PHRF doesn't matter.

I have a Bristol 27 now (PHRF around 240) and I use it as a camping/weekender/local cruiser and it works perfectly which I'm thinking an Ariel 26 would also

Plus it would get you out there and get you some experience.

Also, they are nice boats to look at.......

Btw, my last sailboat had a PHRF of around 65, so it's all about what you want to do with the boat

New Ariel Speed Record !!!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by thomm225

For a camping/liveaboard sailboat, the PHRF doesn't matter.

Certainly true. An older powerboat makes an even better live abroad.

Originally Posted by thomm225

Plus it would get you out there and get you some experience.

And a boat that is more fun to sail in light airs is more likely to get you out on the water and teach you more about sailing.

[john61ct]

Sorry, is the Ariel well suited to light air sailing or not, compared to the others?

I agree that is important, as is seakindly motion and this sort of safety: "if a boat is a good boat, when real trouble comes she is best left alone. She knows better what to do than you, and if you leave her*alone she will do the right things"
— Tony Marchaj

[Don C L]

It is true the Ariel is heavy for its waterline. So there is the trade-off, slower in light air compared to other 18.5' waterlines, but can handle a good deal of wind. I'd get a big genoa and/or assymetrical spinnaker for it. I lived aboard my Columbia 24 which was cramped, but if you pare back to minimum it ain't bad. My 24 was faster in light air (1500 lbs lighter!) but after 10-15 knots of wind they probably are about the same, 4-5 knots is about what you can reasonably count on. I believe you can cut the notch in the transom to allow the engine to tilt up, a real plus. I did that in my 24.

[john61ct]

But then compare to Columbia 29, lots more boat right? still within my 8.5' beam

much better living space (Defender headroom!) just as sturdy, more seakindly and ? faster ?

Better is the enemy of good 8-)

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by john61ct

But then compare to Columbia 29, lots more boat right? still within my 8.5' beam

much better living space (Defender headroom!) just as sturdy, more seakindly and ? faster ?

Better is the enemy of good 8-)

The Columbia is going to have more space, but neither boat would be considered fast. Also, both of those boats are quite old having been built in the 60's

I used to race an Alberg 30 (PHRF 228) with my Bristol 27 (PHRF 240) on a 12 mile triangular course and won every race boat for boat. I think we raced maybe 6-8 times, but I had lots of racing experience. The point is both of these ratings are of slow boats and if one is sailed just a bit better it can be "faster"

But only up to a point.

A Catalina 30 (PHRF 180) for example should beat both the Ariel 26 and the Columbia 29 easily and they aren't known for their speed either. A Catalina 30 TM/BS (Tall Mast/ Bow Sprit) has a PHRF of 168 so it's even faster.

Other examples Catalina 27 (PHRF 207); Albin Vega 27 (PHRF 246); Pearson Triton (PHRF 255); Contessa 26 (PHRF 252)

Here's one PHRF listing which can give you some idea of a boats possible speed

PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps

[thomm225]

Ariel 26 Blog.

She started in Canada and looks like she has made it to Florida via the ICW. She has her outboard in the well which makes the boat still look good

http://www.dinghydreams.com/

Ariel 26 S/V Faith (he also posted on CF a lot)

S/V 'Faith'

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by thomm225

The Columbia is going to have more space, but neither boat would be considered fast. Also, both of those boats are quite old having been built in the 60's

Having a beam maximum of 8.5' for an offshore-capable liveaboard makes the speed factor limited to start with, and at least a few decades old pretty much a design requirement for seaworthy construction in plastic.

Not to mention a low budget, a dreamy Nor'sea 27 is unlikely to fall into my lap.

So within the list of candidates, a knot of extra downwind speed, additional headroom, storage volume or gallons carrying capacity, each would make a huge difference.

But sea-kindly motion and safety/stability in heavy weather must trump all the other factors combined afaic.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Ariel 26 Blog

Yes, read through much of that last night, great stuff!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Having a beam maximum of 8.5' for an offshore-capable liveaboard makes the speed factor limited to start with.

I guess it depends on what qualifies as a liveaboard.

Many very fast boats have a narrow beam and I'm sure a few have been turned into offshore liveaboards ...... at least temporarily for offshore racing

The Hobie 33 (PHRF 90) has a beam of 8' and has competed in the Singlehanded Trans Pac several times. This race is sailed from San Francisco to Hawaii.

As has the Express 27 (PHRF 141) Beam 8.17' and the Hawkfarm 28 (PHRF 162) Pictured....

[fatherchronica]

We used to spend up to two weeks at the Channel Islands in California on our Santana 525, which was more than a foot beamier, and a lot faster. But there were two parents and two girls a few years each side of 10. I think the Ariel would be a nice boat for camper cruising. When we are through cruising in our Cape George we think about leaving our 25 foot Cape Dory on it's trailer somewhere in the Sea of Cortez for just that purpose. We are sure, having started coastal cruising 44 years ago with a new baby onboard a 26' wooden converted Navy whaleboat that 2 retired folks can have a lot of safe fun at a minimalist level on a 25' boat. And we know that we can bring our two dogs and our cat from past experience. Naysayers typically miss out on a lot of pleasure in my opinion.

[inchcailloch]

Two of us have lived on a 28ft for a year before going bigger. I'd rather live on a 26ft yacht and sail in some exotic place than have a 50ft sitting in the marina for 11 months of the year while I'm paying for it to be there.

[KeelMe]

The Ariel is a fantastic little boat. When I was planning my circumnavigation in the 70's I planned to do it on an Ariel. I remember there were at least a dozen guys I knew who had sailed an Ariel from California to Hawaii and back. The only reason I moved up to an Alberg 30 is my boat broker buddy made me an offer I couldn't refuse on a year old A30.

Last year I found a clapped out Ariel on eBay for $200. It was in New York and I was in Texas. I seriously considered buying that boat and sailing it to Bermuda. A kid from New Orleans bought it and ended up sailing it to the Bahamas. I met him on Christmas Eve last year. He claims all he did was clean the boat and replace one wire of standing rigging but the boat looked good. I sailed with him one day and had a blast.