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Old 22-12-2018, 09:28   #16
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

I own my own boat, so you can't call me a landlubber. I say I'm pragmatic. If I'm heading west and the wind is on the nose, I motor. If I'm alone or with an inexperienced crew in close quarters I just use the self-furling jib. It's still better than a power boat.
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Old 22-12-2018, 09:39   #17
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

Yep, we have been sailing professionally and for fun for close to 40 years.

And, we observe that seamanship, sailing, and actually navigating, has nearly disappeared in the world of sailing, with monohulls, and almost does not exist in anyway with catamarans .

For us, it is such a pleasure to see , usually a monohull, sails properly trimmed, reefed down, and when necessary come about to the opposite tack in good seamanship fashion.

We witness very few catamarans that are actually sailing. I would say, even if they have a sail up, that both engines are ahead full, the auto pilot on, the skipper kicked back, feet up against a bulkhead, and a drink in his hand.

I also have seen catamarans and power boats, with no one at the helm, down bellow, not one person on watch, and everyone partying with their friends in the main salon or large aft deck.

I walk down docks, with many, many vessels tied up , and 99% of them do not even know how to secure a vessel with proper cleat hitches.

As real sailors, with a huge long career in sailing and motor vessels world wide, in these situations, we have finally knocked off any negative comment , or any putting down of this lack of nautical knowledge that is rampant.

* We can only take care of ourselves and the vessel that were are skippering.

* We can rely only on our own ability to navigate using paper charts, plotters, dividers, ships compass, hand bearing compass, and an accurate time piece and a knot meter. We sometimes back that up with GPS, and since we are no longer boat owners, we have a hand held GPS that we take with us, when bare boating, or using sailing club boats.

3. And we use nautical terminology. Which we feel is important, and also traditional for those who actually sail.

4. As to seeing the total lack of seamanship out on the ocean or even when docking, or whatever, I now have put it into my psyche, that those people are out on the ocean, or making fast passages thru island chains, and leaping of that hard bimini on catamarans , wrapped around noodles. and laughing and enjoying to the max.

Well, same as us, they have a desire to be out on the water at water world and are going to enjoy themselves and have their own fun adventure in paradise.

We , as well, like them, are enjoying being out on the water, living on board, snorkeling the reefs, dancing in the cockpit , singing along with jimmy buffet, and while safely moored or ashore, quaffing down a dark rum, or an after anchoring, or mooring pick up reward for the passage beer.

Times have changed, and we cannot stop that. We will maintain our sailing, with as little engine noise as possible. And, yes , for many it is now a tech, button pushing world of get there quick with little or no effort .

It is what it is, and all of us are going to be out there enjoying being on the water in our own preferred way.

This next BVI trip, I told Erica, when we spot a fun load of happy folks on a Catamaran, and the party is on, lets dink over, with a bottle of rum , and say hello.

Never can tell , those folks may not only be interesting to talk story with, but more than likely be surprised at how much we have in common.

Keep the fun light illuminated
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Old 22-12-2018, 10:24   #18
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

Sailboats are generally less expensive to charter and cheaper to motor
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Old 22-12-2018, 10:32   #19
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

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Originally Posted by carlheintz View Post
Hey, now don't 'ya all be dissing the sailors who just unfurl the jenny and sail by that alone. I do it all the time when soloing. Sometimes that's the nicest ride, and the hassle of upping the main isn't worth the additional umph it provides. If I had a furling main I might do something different... but mine is a hassle to put up and take down. Requires me to be at the mast, regardless of the way the halyards are run to the cockpit, since it loves to jam in the track as I raise it. Especially on some of the modern boats, the mainsail is pretty minimal in terms of additional speed.

Hi Carl,
The Strong Track is a real slick solution to hoisting and lowering the main'sl. After the track is installed into the groove where the lugs normally go, it stays there. Thereafter the sail lugs go into the exposed side where this low-friction track allows almost no effort to raise the sail even with the wind on the quarter beam. To lower, just uncleat the halyard and watch it fall down neatly into your lazy jacks!
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Old 22-12-2018, 11:27   #20
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

I took a lot of heat on this forum three years ago for starting a thread on this exact topic and observation.

The final conclusion was (after a drawn out mono hull vs multihull debate/battle): People on charters are simply in a hurry to get from place to place and arriving at predetermined destinations in a timely manner; this is their priority with limited time. Sailing is a secondary concern.

That aside... we have friends who live full time on their Lagoon 380 catamaran who never use the sails and only move the boat on calm, windlass days.

Really.... who cares? It's their boat.... their retirement, it's the way they and others like to spent their time.
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Old 22-12-2018, 12:02   #21
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

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I agree. It-s called Dutch sailing, for some reason. But it works best for older boats like mine (1978) when huge genoas where the fashion.
As to sail-less charterers, this is partly due to unrealistic planning, which does not allow for 3-4knts sailing, which is often the best my area, the Ionian, has to offer in summer, or tacking upwind which "wastes" time.
Funny that you should mention that. 3 years ago we wanted to spend some time in the Netherlands and UK area but needed to live cheaply as we would be there for 6 months, we bought a Contessa 28 to live and cruise on and planned to resell after. I'd always sailed with full sail before but found that 50% of the time we just used the genoa as it was so easy and in the Grevelingenmeer, Veerse Meer etc etc you don't want to get where you are going too quickly, it was just so pleasant. Guess that's why it's called Dutch sailing. About half the boats were doing the same. Once out in the North Sea it became more like reality.
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Old 22-12-2018, 12:06   #22
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

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I cannot figure out why these people would charter a sailboat and not sail.
It gets in the way of pre sundowners, sundowners, and post sundowners. Hard to believe there would ever be any mystery.
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Old 22-12-2018, 14:53   #23
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

I wanted to charter a sailing cat, but two days before we were to start our charter our boat was de-masted so, Moorings, offered us a 53ft power cat at the same price...fuel was included, at my insistence!
As most have stated, lack of experience, appears to be why most motor while chartering and secondly, while on vacation, it's all about the destination, for most.
When we took the power cat, we went from St. Lucia to Union Island and back in a week. There is no way we would've gone that distance (round robin) on a sail boat in the limited amount of time, we had. But, then there's the fuel bill...ouch! That would've hurt, if it came out of our pocket! I still would've preferred to sail but our friends, who don't sail, loved the trip.
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Old 22-12-2018, 16:16   #24
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

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Originally Posted by billknny View Post
Based on our observations of large catamarans, your question is hardly limited to charter cats.

Sailing north along the west side of Eleuthera, 18 knots on the starboard quarter, sailing at 9.5 knots we blow past a large Lagoon MOTORING!?!? I mean if you donít sail a cat in those conditions when will you ever?

There are reasons that the mastless cat has become a popular thing.
Funny how we all see it. Now for me, I always see monohulls not sailing. If they move at all, which most don't, they only go about 2 miles then drop their rusty cqr right in the middle of a pile of other non-sailing monohulls. This group is so closely packed in because its a sheltered spot and they can't stand to be in any type of rolly anchorage. And when I talk to monohull sailors, they always say they don't want to go anywhere until the right weather window comes - which seems to be a zero wind day.

Yes, I ponder this a lot. What's wrong with these monohull boats.
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Old 22-12-2018, 17:26   #25
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

I have raced and cruised sail boats for the better part of fifty years, Hawaii, Caribbean, Australia, South Pacific. I continue to race in club racing on someone else's boat. Better that way when you blow a spinnaker.

I should point out that charter companies don't usually charge for fuel for sail boats but they do for power boats so many cruisers that aren't in a hurry will cruise their sailing cats under power and suck up the free fuel.

I was half owner of a Moorings 4700 sailing cat in French Polynesia, a bunch of round islands in the South Pacific. How do you sail around a round island? Maybe there will be good sailing wind for one-third or less of the circumference of a round island. I have cruised between Raiatea and Bora Bora seven or eight times. I have never sailed both was. One leg is always under power if you want to get their in less 24 hours and fifty tacks. One time we ended up powering both ways in the sailing cat.

Most of us go cruising to see the sights and relax, not beat our brains out showing off a lifetime of skills. The mainsail on our cat weighted 250 pounds. I now own an ex-Moorings 47 PowerCat which is charted out and makes money. When I want to go cruising on it, see the sights and relax I push the start buttons and cast off. Starting to get the picture?
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Old 22-12-2018, 17:48   #26
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

My lady and me chartered a 44 Leopard in the Abacos a couple of months ago. The charter company billed me for their pre-paid fuel option of $430. I asked if this is a mandatory charge or an option. "Option" they say. Good, because I KNOW we won't burn anywhere near that amount. Turns out after a week, our fuel bill was about 1/4 of the "OPTION"

Not bragging because we did indeed do some motoring....a couple of Whale Cay passages for example.

It is true...as a charterer with only a week or so to meet your itinerary, one has to bite the bullet and motor. And so it goes...

Some of us like to minimize the motoring as much as possible. BTW, we had some really nice winds.....up to 28 knots or so and with just the jib we would comfortably do around 8kts on a broad reach, which was just fine by us.

Now, to add some fuel to the fire......EVERYBODY knows that ALL catamarans motor 700% of the time!!!!!!! hahahaha
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Old 22-12-2018, 18:00   #27
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

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For me, that moment when the sails are set, and you switch off the engine is a magical moment when the only noise is the wind in the rigging, and the waves breaking off the hull as it cuts through the water.

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Old 22-12-2018, 20:55   #28
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I took a lot of heat on this forum three years ago for starting a thread on this exact topic and observation.

The final conclusion was (after a drawn out mono hull vs multihull debate/battle): People on charters are simply in a hurry to get from place to place and arriving at predetermined destinations in a timely manner; this is their priority with limited time. Sailing is a secondary concern.

That aside... we have friends who live full time on their Lagoon 380 catamaran who never use the sails and only move the boat on calm, windlass days.

Really.... who cares? It's their boat.... their retirement, it's the way they and others like to spent their time.
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Old 22-12-2018, 21:32   #29
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

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I took a lot of heat on this forum three years ago for starting a thread on this exact topic and observation.

.
Well, not quite the same topic.
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Old 22-12-2018, 23:13   #30
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Re: Why don't charter boats sail?

I recently did a charter on a cat with my family, who had no real experience sailing.


We sailed 4 of the 7 days - 1 day no wind, 1 day too much wind and 1 day the wind on the nose to where we wanted to go - No beating and tacking for us


We saw equally as many Cats & Monos sailing as were motoring.
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