What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

[weavis]

I bought a new 2 sim phone recently. Its a doogee 310.

I put a timer alarm on it to wake me. It was not quite loud enough so I put another app that amplified my sound. Still not loud enough. So I put another app to fire off the bluetooth to my boat sound system...... It was VERY loud.

My battery died at this point.

Stupid phone.

Going to play with the Radar now.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Yeah. I give up. Happy to let you believe you've actually won something. Exactly what is anyone's guess.

Why has it turned into a pissing contest?
Grow up.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Why has it turned into a pissing contest?
Grow up.

It didnt.
Well it did really.
Better to be nice and let the subject drop........ Once it got to wooden boats and people puking the plot got lost......

Ooh...... found a switch on the Radar that I didnt know about- might get an extra 5 minutes sleep if I push it.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by weavis

You are struggling to maintain credibility in your argumentation. Let me aboard your vessel and I will cite you infractions of breaking the letter of the regulation many times.

Your own examples show the same negligence as you are imposing on solo sailors theoretically. The regulation leaves the assessment of risk potential to the individual. How many times have you taken a look and then gone down to make coffee and been distracted for 15 minutes? You did that based on your risk assessment.

Next time you take a sleep and the person you left on watch has got engrossed in a book- it happens and they only look up every 30 minutes or so, what is the difference in failing to fulfil the definition of the law that you cling to, and not the entire spirit of the regulation for safe sailing

This is a circular argument. You dont think its safe to solo and many disagree with you. I happen to think its 'safer' with more than one person on board, but its not intrinsically unsafe with a trained sailor who is alone.

And yes, I have been to sea. Thanks for asking. It is generally cold and wet and full of fish, and I quite like it.

Actually I said a maximum of 15 minutes between taking a hard look around using radar and visible means as well as AIS and listening and smelling and any other tools I have available. That's quite different from routinely taking 15 minutes off completely on a regular basis. I take a hard look around every 15 minutes, but in between, if I think I see something or hear something or there is a boat within radar range, I leave the radar on and watch him or get out the binoculars and try to get a better look. Of course I have taken a look and then gone below for various reasons, but I make it as quick as possible because I really do take quite seriously my obligation while on watch to keep a lookout at all times, for the safety of my sleeping crew AND those aboard other vessels. Sure you can make the ridiculous argument about never blinking to fulfill that, but in reality, I think we all know what the colreg says when it states "at all times." certainly not on a regular basis restrict looking out to every 30 or even every 15 minutes, while being completely oblivious to your surroundings during the interval.

You may be right that you can find infractions aboard almost any vessel including mine, but few of them are likely to kill someone in another vessel, whereas failing to have a watchkeeper aboard a vessel for 30 minutes at a time while underway surely can, big difference!

I'm happy to see you admit that having crew aboard is safer than singlehanding but what do you mean by singlehanding not being intrinsically unsafe with a single, trained sailor? What possible difference does it make how well trained a sailor is if he is sound asleep when you first show up on his radar and the collision happens before his egg timer goes off to wake him up? Also, do you really think that after every 30 minute period, in the midst of many nights at sea with no long periods of sleep, singlehanders actually wake up sufficiently to analyze every blip on their radar or manage to adequately focus their eyes to see what would be easily visible if they were really awake? I still have 20/20 vision but when I get woken up suddenly, I can barely see well enough to shave for about the first 5 minutes, let alone see barely visible boats in difficult conditions, at least until my eyes decide to accept that sleepy time is really over.

I think "the entire spirit" is that you are responsible for keeping a watch at all times, just like it says. Any other "interpretation" is just rationalization of what you wish were true so you can do what you want to do. Yes, it is quite possible that someone on watch on my boat gets engrossed in a good book and as the skipper, technically I'm responsible. But, as I'm sure you can readily believe, I am quite clear (even obnoxiously so!) when I'm explaining what I expect out of watchkeepers and what they can expect from me when it's my turn. But I've found that most people are willing to accept almost anything within reason when that rule also applies to the person making the rule that they don't necessarily agree with. I also provide them with an egg timer so if they do get engrossed in that book, they have an automatic reminder. It's never been a problem.

Since you verified that you have been to sea, how many times have you gone 30 minutes without SOMETHING of note happening or some important clue about what's going on around you be made momentarily visible to you? I just can't imagine being aboard a boat underway for 30 minutes with everyone aboard being sound asleep, the thought of it sends shivers down my spine!

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Actually I said a maximum of 15 minutes between taking a hard look around using radar and visible means as well as AIS and listening and smelling and any other tools I have available. That's quite different from routinely taking 15 minutes off completely on a regular basis. I take a hard look around every 15 minutes, but in between, if I think I see something or hear something or there is a boat within radar range, I leave the radar on and watch him or get out the binoculars and try to get a better look. Of course I have taken a look and then gone below for various reasons, but I make it as quick as possible because I really do take quite seriously my obligation while on watch to keep a lookout at all times, for the safety of my sleeping crew AND those aboard other vessels. Sure you can make the ridiculous argument about never blinking to fulfill that, but in reality, I think we all know what the colreg says when it states "at all times." certainly not on a regular basis restrict looking out to every 30 or even every 15 minutes, while being completely oblivious to your surroundings during the interval.

You may be right that you can find infractions aboard almost any vessel including mine, but few of them are likely to kill someone in another vessel, whereas failing to have a watchkeeper aboard a vessel for 30 minutes at a time while underway surely can, big difference!

I'm happy to see you admit that having crew aboard is safer than singlehanding but what do you mean by singlehanding not being intrinsically unsafe with a single, trained sailor? What possible difference does it make how well trained a sailor is if he is sound asleep when you first show up on his radar and the collision happens before his egg timer goes off to wake him up? Also, do you really think that after every 30 minute period, in the midst of many nights at sea with no long periods of sleep, singlehanders actually wake up sufficiently to analyze every blip on their radar or manage to adequately focus their eyes to see what would be easily visible if they were really awake? I still have 20/20 vision but when I get woken up suddenly, I can barely see well enough to shave for about the first 5 minutes, let alone see barely visible boats in difficult conditions, at least until my eyes decide to accept that sleepy time is really over.

I think "the entire spirit" is that you are responsible for keeping a watch at all times, just like it says. Any other "interpretation" is just rationalization of what you wish were true so you can do what you want to do. Yes, it is quite possible that someone on watch on my boat gets engrossed in a good book and as the skipper, technically I'm responsible. But, as I'm sure you can readily believe, I am quite clear (even obnoxiously so!) when I'm explaining what I expect out of watchkeepers and what they can expect from me when it's my turn. But I've found that most people are willing to accept almost anything within reason when that rule also applies to the person making the rule that they don't necessarily agree with. I also provide them with an egg timer so if they do get engrossed in that book, they have an automatic reminder. It's never been a problem.

Since you verified that you have been to sea, how many times have you gone 30 minutes without SOMETHING of note happening or some important clue about what's going on around you be made momentarily visible to you? I just can't imagine being aboard a boat underway for 30 minutes with everyone aboard being sound asleep, the thought of it sends shivers down my spine!

This.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Since 1964 I have never run into another boat..
However I have been T-boned in perfect visibility twice in that time.. Once underway and once while anchored.. both were crewed 4+ aboard the boats and calm seas.. both motor sailing.
Methinks the dangers are more from the likes of you guys so easily distracted

That brings a point that I know was a cause of huge contention among the anti single handers. And I'm not one, yet but hope to try it soon .

But the 'experience' of regular single handers, I would think brings along an area of knowledge, and even expertise in sailing that many other sailors who always rely on crew don't have. And that's a keener sense of 'keeping watch'.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Since 1964 I have never run into another boat..

What happened in 1964?

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by weavis

I bought a new 2 sim phone recently. Its a doogee 310.

I put a timer alarm on it to wake me. It was not quite loud enough so I put another app that amplified my sound. Still not loud enough. So I put another app to fire off the bluetooth to my boat sound system...... It was VERY loud.

My battery died at this point.

Stupid phone.

Going to play with the Radar now.

Hot diggy'd damn Weavis, by the time you get used to that set up, you'll be paranoid about going to sleep in fear of not other ships, but of your 'system' going off.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Since 1964 I have never run into another boat..
However I have been T-boned in perfect visibility twice in that time.. Once underway and once while anchored.. both were crewed 4+ aboard the boats and calm seas.. both motor sailing.
Methinks the dangers are more from the likes of you guys so easily distracted

Actually you have run into another boat since you were underway one of those times you got t-boned. As may others have pointed out on this thread, it usually takes two inadequate watch keepers to create a collision. Why didn't you maneuver to avoid him? I'd like to say that since 1964 I have never run into another boat either, but there was that time about 20 years ago when I was grabbing a mooring singlehanded and my shift linkage failed at the most inappropriate moment, and even then the tip of my CQR barely brushed against the lifeline of the boat on the mooring just ahead of me, but technically it was a collision so I fessed up. Your experience verifies that being negligent in keeping a proper watch can easily result in a collision, even if YOU were doing nothing wrong and did every thing possible to avoid it. But you are making a HUGE assumption when you attempt to suggest that boats with several crew aboard are any more likely to become distracted than singlehanders are. When you say "you guys," you are painting with a pretty broad brush. Also, since even a grizzled old delivery skipper such as yourself who fancies himself as perpetually alert to all possible danger all the time has to sleep sometime, and when that happens you have NO control over how distracted you are by any random dream that might occur in your noggin, or simply by extreme fatigue. If you're a single handed sailor talking about other sailors not maintaining adequate watches and causing collisions it would be wise to remember the old saying, "there but for the grace of God go I."

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

You can google singlehanders collisions as well as I can if you're curious about it.

Yes, I can. And did. "singlehand sail collision" turns up a lot of info for singlehanders to operate their boats in the safest manner possible, but oddly I can't find anyone but themselves that have been hurt by singlehanders. The point - which apparently is lost on you - is that even with the power of the web it is not possible to put a list together of aggrieved mariners that have been done wrong by singlehanders. Perhaps you will do better, if you decide to stop being theoretical and put some energy into learning about what really happens out there. That is if you were a seeker of truth and not a crusader for a particular interpretation of Admiralty Law. But even if you can find one or two examples, worldwide, in the history of singlehanding the sparseness makes the point - it is simply not a threat to others.

I must note that if sheer volume of words could win an argument you'd have it.

Move on...nothing to see here...

Greg

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

That brings a point that I know was a cause of huge contention among the anti single handers. And I'm not one, yet but hope to try it soon .

But the 'experience' of regular single handers, I would think brings along an area of knowledge, and even expertise in sailing that many other sailors who always rely on crew don't have. And that's a keener sense of 'keeping watch'.

We tend to come across as pretty casual but believe you me.. we are a damn sight more 'Aware and Alert' than your typical crewed boat who always assumes someone else has their back covered..
Even with crew I sail with a solo mindset.. I like life to much to trust people with it.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Why has it turned into a pissing contest?
Grow up.

No pissing match. Maybe CarinaPDX just said it better in post #400. "Move on...nothing to see here..."

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

We tend to come across as pretty casual but believe you me.. we are a damn sight more 'Aware and Alert' than your typical crewed boat who always assumes someone else has their back covered..
Even with crew I sail with a solo mindset.. I like life to much to trust people with it.

I agree with that last statement about even wehn with crew sailing with a solo mindset. But what makes you think there aren't lots of other folks out there doing the same thing? I realize that not everybody does, but I certainly do and I think most experienced sailors I've met were paying attention even when it wasn't their "turn" to. You attempt to stereotype the "typical" crewed boat in an unflattering way, but ignore the fact that for pretty large chunks of time that you're underway singlehanded, you're relying largely on luck to not hit anything, at least while you're sound asleep.

Have you considered that from the perspective of the 4+ crew members on the boat you say you collided with while underway, their only collision since 1964(?) was with one of those damn singlehanders who wasn't paying attention, typical of them because everyone knows they are always down below sleeping instead of keeping a proper lookout? See how that stereotyping thing works?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Wrong

No pissing match. Maybe CarinaPDX just said it better in post #400. "Move on...nothing to see here..."

I wasn't referring to any one individual. It just seemed to get to the point of stone throwing. You are correct, both sides had been stated. Nothing to see here.

[weavis]

I just wired a couple of relays from the Radar to an electric Klaxon inside the cabin.

Sound can make your eyes spin and see colours if its loud enough. The pressure wave is unreal!

It also got me a free time check from the boat up the dock...

"What the #&%k do you think your doing at 12.15 at night?"

Time to go home.

Night all.