What happened to the "small" "Affordable" cruisers?

[valhalla360]

I think a lot of it is not that small boats went away so much as the cruising world expanded and that expansion was mostly among the more well off retired community who could afford bigger boats and the comfort that went with them.

I'd be willing to be there are 10 times as many long term cruisers today compared to say the 1970's.

And as these retired folks bought larger boats, they eventually turned up on the used market, so even the poor young cruiser could move up to something bigger.

The economic advantage is very true. In the RV world, it's common for a tiny truck camper to cost as much as a 30ft 5th wheel...why? The shell is a small part of the cost. The fridge, furnace, plumbing system, etc...are all about the same cost. Plus it takes more creativity to cram them into a smaller package.

Boats are pretty similar. If you look into building a boat, typically they say the hull is only about 20% of the cost/work...the rest is all the fiddly bits. So there isn't a lot of savings for a manufacturer building a smaller boat. So if the old model costs $200k to build and you can extend it by 5ft and it only costs $10k more to build...you can sell it for $50k more and boost your profits.

Also, keep in mind a 35ft or a 45ft boat is going to take up the same slot on the production floor and with most builders being small scale, they can only build X number of boats per year, so they can't make up the profits by building more boats.

[Group9]

One thing for sure. If you are willing to accept the lack of room in a later 60's, or 70's CCA style boats, you can get a hell of a deal on a nice cruising boat.

Even the older narrow beam Hinkleys are starting to get reasonable.

We have just all been conditioned to believe that all cruising sailboats have to be floating condos.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Group9

We have just all been conditioned to believe that all cruising sailboats have to be floating condos.

Or have we broke the conditioning that cruising has to be little more than tent camping on the water.

When we were younger, we enjoyed roughing it tent camping but it was typically for a weekend. Then we went home and lived in a house with heat, aircon, fridge, running water, etc...

When you talk about cruising longer term, the roughing it aspect gets old really quick when there are better options. Those better options are much more viable now.

[sailorboy1]

Maybe it is just that cruisers now days are more likely to be older retired type of people with money. But 40 years ago cruisers were more likely to be young adventurers without money (still holds true, take a look at the boats the young bloggers have that are basically living day to day on click bait money).

Or maybe back were every boat was built in an old fashioned labor intensive way 1 stick at a time very few could afford a bigger pile of sticks.

[Mike OReilly]

The demographic of the typical cruiser has changed in the last 30-40 years. Cruisers are now older and richer. With age comes reduced physical abilities, plus the fact that people have now spent a lifetime at a certain comfort/luxury level, so naturally they carry those standards into retirement.

I do wonder if we'll see a reversal of this as the Baby Boomers sail off into the sunset. Those in the younger generations who have the wherewithal to get off the treadmill may start to reverse this trend of bigger, fancier boats. But I don't expect to see this for a while yet.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The demographic of the typical cruiser has changed in the last 30-40 years. Cruisers are now older and richer. With age comes reduced physical abilities, plus the fact that people have now spent a lifetime at a certain comfort/luxury level, so naturally they carry those standards into retirement.

I do wonder if we'll see a reversal of this as the Baby Boomers sail off into the sunset. Those in the younger generations who have the wherewithal to get off the treadmill may start to reverse this trend of bigger, fancier boats. But I don't expect to see this for a while yet.

The Tiny House movement, is another interesting trend among the younger set. And, you can certainly apply that doctrine to boats.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Or have we broke the conditioning that cruising has to be little more than tent camping on the water.

When we were younger, we enjoyed roughing it tent camping but it was typically for a weekend. Then we went home and lived in a house with heat, aircon, fridge, running water, etc...

When you talk about cruising longer term, the roughing it aspect gets old really quick when there are better options. Those better options are much more viable now.

You have me wrong. The boat we have now, and the one that preceded it, are both in the "floating condo" category (and our greatest panic moment while cruising once, was realizing we had burned up the impeller to the generator, and didn't have any easy way to get another one right away!). We are in our 60's and we like our creature comforts these days.

But, if the only way I could afford to go cruising, was to do it on a 38 foot yawl with pilot berths, you can bet I would be doing it!

[Davy J]

Here is another part to the story.

I owned and learned how to sail on a Catalina 25. Catalina made thousands of them from 1976 to 1991. They then switched to producing a Catalina 250 model. They stopped producing that model a number of years ago.

A very good shape, pristine, Catalina 25 can buy purchased for less than $10,000. A very good C250 can be had for less than $20,000.

Catalina, at this point, most likely could not produce a 25' boat that would retail for less than $50,000.

Victims of their own success, they cannot compete with the used market they created..........

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Group9

The Tiny House movement, is another interesting trend among the younger set. And, you can certainly apply that doctrine to boats.

With the corollary being the declining home ownership rates amongst Millennials compared to previous generations (http://longevity.stanford.edu/home-ownership/).

And then there's the rise of the so-called "sharing economy", which really has little to do with sharing, but has a lot to do with declining economic standing, particularly amongst the younger generations.

Millennials also have less freedom when it comes to work. Fewer have secure jobs, with paid holidays and pension plans. As anyone who has freelanced knows, you can have all the time off that you want, you just have to live on zero income. Most people find this hard to do.

[Davy J]

The Tiny House movement, is another interesting trend among the younger set. And, you can certainly apply that doctrine to boats.

At my last marina, there was a very well kept young couple living on a 28' sailboat........... Here's the kicker, They also had four children, one of which was born while they lived on the boat in the marina. Their older children, which I think the oldest was about eight, were particularly well spoken and educated. They were homeschooled right on the boat.

Anyway, if affordable is not a requirement don't look at this 31 footer....
Most other boats won't come close:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH68iz08iqo

[Burnside Style]

Outlier here!
My wife and I are in the process of building a 17.5' coastal cruising catamaran. (a stretched duo 480c from Bernd Kohler)
We are downsizing to this from a Westerly Centaur for a handful of reasons..
From available slip space within a reasonable distance from our house, to the lower overall and maintenance cost due to the reduced size and complexity of the systems. Granted, this build will be for weekending and shorter coastal hops around the US gulf coast.


Overall we reduced in size and complexity to fit our current lifestyle and budget. That being said, if we were to move up in size for wanting to go further, or our family expanding we would be looking at building Bernd's Duo 660 or 880..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

It's a thought, but if you'd spent time watching a westerly being built you'd see why the factory couldn't possibly make any money. While the European companies were building huge production lines and installing computer controlled cutters from cad, they were still building boats like you or I would in a shed.

I thought that was what I said.. also each stage had to be inspected by a Lloyds surveyor.
They were undercut on price and speed.. and quality.

[bruceb]

Mr Otter, I think your question has been very well answered, so I won't repeat what has already been said better than I can- I was a sailboat dealer through the 80's and early 90's, and we sold a lot of boats, many of which are still around. Since you live near me (I am in Atlanta), come on out to Lake Lanier and let me give you an up-close view of the local market. There are several thousand sailboats in the water, most are for sale if you approached the owner's at the right moment.

If you are interested in sailing, I keep a 33' Crowther tri on the lake and I am pretty much always available to sail if the wind looks decent. I will send you my contact info.

Bruce

[Don C L]

I think the prices on the Django and RM tells the whole story of what happened to small affordable cruisers. Yikes.

[alctel]

Well the cruising crowd is now pretty overwhelmingly over 60, and at that age (I imagine) small, cramped spaces become less attractive, especially if you have some investment properties, a pension, investments paying out etc...

Most people in their 20s/30s are still trying to pay off student debt, or don't get any vacation time, though you do see the occasional ones who decided 'sod this' and just take off in tiny boats with ultra shoestring budgets.

[DreaminFred]

Originally Posted by Phantom Jim

I will state, without any proof or evidence whatever, that our 1981 36 foot Pearson 365 ketch is most likely a stronger boat today than many brand new boats for sale. I also suspect she will be around long after these newer boats are landfill.

I will also state they will not have more serenity than we had either!

God love the Good Old Days!

I confirm Jim’s view and note that you can buy my 365 now for $12,000. Affordable small cruisers are not getting smaller, but they’re certainly getting more affordable! With a repower, I know my boat is good for another 25 years.

F