Using headphones on night watch?

[Deck Scrubber]

Originally Posted by Semper Paratus

When you blocking even one ear you are sir putting others in danger.. Seen it in real life. But if you want to be the reason some family is killed that your business

Well for a start it's a madam not a sir, and I was only stating that it's ok out in the middle of the ocean. If you have done ocean passages you would know what I mean, as for killing family's well you are lucky if you see one or two boats in 3 weeks, the chances are very slim. As for your fines I would love you to find me out there, hell I would even shout you a rum.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by wildcat35

Not a hater of ear buds,but the safety of my life and others I put before ear buds.

If i were you I'd be more concerned about you repeated banging your head against a wall.

And to be as silly as you and others here, how can you possibly be 100% listening when you have flogging sails, clanging halyards, hulls crashing through water and roaring wind generators?

All that is noise and according to you, noise will affect the safety of my life and others.
Shame on you.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Semper Paratus

What ever. You said you are from down under? Figured so, Most argont fellow I know are from there// So I will stay away from there..

[Semper Paratus]

Originally Posted by Deck Scrubber

Well for a start it's a madam not a sir, and I was only stating that it's ok out in the middle of the ocean. If you have done ocean passages you would know what I mean, as for killing family's well you are lucky if you see one or two boats in 3 weeks, the chances are very slim. As for your fines I would love you to find me out there, hell I would even shout you a rum.

Please forgive me on the Sir deal..

I been off the Coast of Coast Rica no Surface Contact for 58 days. But when you have your ears covered even just one you risk to much than it is worth.

We as my Ship had came along a Sailing Vessel, that nobody paying attention, cut in front of us after we already altered course to avoid it. No reaction to ship's whistle, or VHF Radio. If they had an alert watch stander this would no had happen.

When you are out in the middle of nowhere, that when it bound to happen. Some Sailing Vessels are hard to pick up on radar, and only you can see it's mast till you right on top of it. Even Standing on the main deck of a Cutter, near a vent blower I heard noises from other ships. If I had a head set on, I would not have.

Part of our communications during sea details or General Quarters We had Phone Talkers which had a head set on talking to others on the Ship. With them on you could not hear the radios..

If you want to listen to music on watch fine, but a vigilant watch stander will be to busy to listen. Who knows some other vessel be needing help and you alone is the closest to them, and only one who hear's their SOS Call, but you missed it cause that raio speaker to the side of your headset,, Just think about it. What if that is you in need of help?

[Semper Paratus]

Originally Posted by Deck Scrubber

Well for a start it's a madam not a sir, and I was only stating that it's ok out in the middle of the ocean. If you have done ocean passages you would know what I mean, as for killing family's well you are lucky if you see one or two boats in 3 weeks, the chances are very slim. As for your fines I would love you to find me out there, hell I would even shout you a rum.

FYI, I was never on the boarding teams, it was my job to find them. Or Navigate the ship to find them, pending which class of Cutter I was on. I was an Radarman, but qualified as a QMOW underway on the RELIANCE Class Cutters and also trained in Electric Warfare on the 378s. So the USCG spent a lot of money training me, and enjoyed my job so I did it well. [IMG][/IMG]

[Deck Scrubber]

Originally Posted by Semper Paratus

Please forgive me on the Sir deal..

I been off the Coast of Coast Rica no Surface Contact for 58 days. But when you have your ears covered even just one you risk to much than it is worth.

We as my Ship had came along a Sailing Vessel, that nobody paying attention, cut in front of us after we already altered course to avoid it. No reaction to ship's whistle, or VHF Radio. If they had an alert watch stander this would no had happen.

When you are out in the middle of nowhere, that when it bound to happen. Some Sailing Vessels are hard to pick up on radar, and only you can see it's mast till you right on top of it. Even Standing on the main deck of a Cutter, near a vent blower I heard noises from other ships. If I had a head set on, I would not have.

Part of our communications during sea details or General Quarters We had Phone Talkers which had a head set on talking to others on the Ship. With them on you could not hear the radios..

If you want to listen to music on watch fine, but a vigilant watch stander will be to busy to listen. Who knows some other vessel be needing help and you alone is the closest to them, and only one who hear's their SOS Call, but you missed it cause that raio speaker to the side of your headset,, Just think about it. What if that is you in need of help?

That's exactly what I have been trying to say, off the coast is completely different to crossing oceans, we have every bit of safety equipment you can get and then some, nothing is going to get close to us without us knowing about it. We also have an AIS system so we transmit and receive so as far as I'm concerned I know exactly what is going on around me all the time, ear buds or no ear buds.

[Semper Paratus]

Originally Posted by Deck Scrubber

That's exactly what I have been trying to say, off the coast is completely different to crossing oceans, we have every bit of safety equipment you can get and then some, nothing is going to get close to us without us knowing about it. We also have an AIS system so we transmit and receive so as far as I'm concerned I know exactly what is going on around me all the time, ear buds or no ear buds.

Did AIS system help the 2 DDG's last year? Not everyone may have the AIS.

[Deck Scrubber]

Originally Posted by Semper Paratus

Did AIS system help the 2 DDG's last year? Not everyone may have the AIS.

No it may not of, but using that and radar we were well covered, I have a high regard for every country's coast guard, and they do an excellent job, so all I'm going to add is that you have no clue whatsoever of what it is like to be a cruiser out on the ocean for two weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks at a time with nothing going on but looking at water. It gets trying real quick, we all have different ways of stopping ourselves from going stir crazy.
Having said that I wish you good day.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

As for me, I tried an ipod with audio books when on watch far out to sea. It was enjoyable and made our 6 hour watches go by quickly, but I was subconsciously uncomfortable and soon stopped the practice. I'm not sure what caused the discomfort, for objectively I felt that I was attentive and taking care of business, but something niggled at me, so I quit.

As to the watchkeeping standards of professional seamen, well, I think it varies hugely. For instance, in the well chronicled collision between Jessica Watson and the Chinese ship, the "professional" watchstanding crew consisted of one junior officer and one AB. They were ensconced in the bridge, doors closed, shooting the breeze (as recorded on the bridge voice recorder), and not paying much attention to anything, let alone subtle sounds from outside. And this was in the approach zone for a major port, in an area with lots of fishing and recreational vessels about. Compared to this (I suspect common) level of seamanship, the headphone issue seems trivial.

Short handed amateur crews, like the many cruising couples who are actively sailing our seas, will never achieve the level of watchkeeping that good professional crews do. They have neither the sophisticated equipment, nor the height of eye, nor the stability of platform nor the professional training that ship's crews have (or should have) let alone the numbers of available eyes. Yet they generally succeed in making safe passages. Some come to grief, and sometimes due to lack of competent watchkeeping, but the fraction is very very small. It would be interesting to compare the relative frequency of collisions between the merchant fleet and the cruising fleet. I'd bet the cruisers come out on top!

And for those who piously declare "100% pure concentration on MY boat" and the like, well, if you actually do go on passage, I'd bet that even your standards slip a bit in mid ocean. Too bad we don't have cockpit recorders on our yachts, for the evidence might be interesting.

Jim

Good post Jim and it helps my final thoughts on this.

That niggling feeling on using an iPod on watch makes perfect sense to me. That's Experience telling you that you were "on the road" to becoming less alert and less disciplined.

You can never be 100% attentive to lookout, but you can discipline yourself to become better at it.
1. You don't need to look at a person in the cockpit when talking... Look seaward when having a conversation!

2. I keep my alertness up with a predictive game of which swell will break next?, scanning for irregularities and Star-Constellation identities. Also observing the subtle changes is swell directions, their patterns and interaction with each other, keeps me fully awake and in tune with what is around me.

3. When someone legitimately claims that the reason they are comfortable relaxing their lookout standard when far offshore, .....because of the low density of traffic, ......I always wonder....
Have they considered that this could also be the "other boat/ships" mindset?
Watches are relaxed, crew get distracted with other projects and catch up on their reading

Does that really make it safer than for example, a focussed approach to Singapore....?
I think not!

4. Lastly on Commercial vs Pleasure watchkeeping and lookout.... Having sailed with both, I can tell you that it all comes down to the attitude and discipline of the individual.

I can train a conscientious amateur to become a good watch keeper and lookout, but I cannot improve on a jaded, complacent, professional watchkeeping officer, to be good at what they do.

I can only fire them and get them off my ship.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Semper Paratus

Did AIS system help the 2 DDG's last year? Not everyone may have the AIS.

Specious argument. The collisions in the Seventh Fleet are why the CNO recently changed Navy policy for all USN ships to transmit AIS by default. They are still working out details (names for example) but at least they are on the screen now.



It would be nice if USCG would catch up.



There are still boats without VHF. Not many but some. AIS is rapidly heading in the same direction. AIS is so ubiquitous I even have one in my go-kit for deliveries.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

AIS is so ubiquitous I even have one in my go-kit for deliveries.

Slight drift but just add a raspberry pi and antenna to get gps/compass/AIS/barometer -

Announcing: Moitessier HAT | Sailoog

[alitaptap]

On a recent delivery one crew sailed at night with earphones; a second crew complained that the one crew was unnecessarily distracted and largely oblivious to the sailing conditions as a result - he was. Ironically, when the second crew came on-watch he opened up with his portable loudspeaker, blue-toothed to his mobile, that kept me awake while off-watch. I find far too much to be interested in at night to need music: wind, sails, clouds, stars, waves, shooting stars, phosphorescence, thunder as well as creaks; and, if you wear headphones, you will miss the dolphins when they come along side. My advice, don't use them if you want to be considered as being on-watch. If you need to stay awake: make sure you have fellow crew you can talk with; or, practice singing a few songs from memory.


Music does have its place, e.g. something triumphant when overtaking fellow competitors in a club race around the cans during daylight

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by conachair

Slight drift but just add a raspberry pi and antenna to get gps/compass/AIS/barometer -

I have a phone anyway - apps for nav/gps/compass/barometer. I have a laptop anyway - nav/gps/AIS. I don't need any more hardware in my bag. *grin*

Originally Posted by alitaptap

On a recent delivery one crew sailed at night with earphones; a second crew complained that the one crew was unnecessarily distracted

Music over speakers is not okay at all - too intrusive on the off watch. As I said earlier - it's an individual judgment call. However, if I surprise a crew member by coming on deck they aren't sufficiently attentive (earbuds or not) and something has to change.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I have a phone anyway - apps for nav/gps/compass/barometer. I have a laptop anyway - nav/gps/AIS. I don't need any more hardware in my bag. *grin*

You could have a much smaller bag, just a little box, then have all your music and podcasts in there and add a headphone socket....

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Specious argument. AIS is so ubiquitous I even have one in my go-kit for deliveries.

Actually not intended to be snarky, but mainly to suggest this lengthy thread is is nearing a natural end, in much the same way differences of opinion often do: If AIS is ubiquitous, why do you need it in your go-kit for deliveries? I suggest that you have one because it is not ubiquitous.

My own view is that such things as music in headphones and earbuds are a distraction, and AIS, while an aid, does not work with, say, sizable floating debris. After eyesight, your hearing is probably your most important sense while on watch. Maybe flex on watch is more acceptable on a small cruising vessel, but not so much on military or commercial ships, although hearing is no less important in any on watch situation. Enough already.