The future.???

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Chotu

It would be exceedingly difficult to 3-D print a good boat.

The glass layers would be nearly impossible to do

Well, they used chopper guns in the past.
Not high performance when it comes to strength to weight ratio, but in many cases that was not the goal.

3D printing has the advantage that it can exactly vary thickness and dispose material exactly where it's needed, a lot more complex structures can built up along load paths.

Materials which can be printed can include carbon as well and there is surely more to come.
They can even print continuous fibre reinforcements now.
It's going slowly in the direction like they built 3DL sails.

Still the pré production development of efficient structures is very involved, so that it only becomes viable when numbers are high, or the end product is very expensive.

What can be an interesting approach is to spent money on the development of an effective structure and than allow for a lot of individual customer choices on the non structural components because the printer allows for versatility.

The high precision of 3D printed parts allows an increase of robotic fit out as well.

Currently there is still the issue of surface finishing to be solved. One solution would be to print into molds, but that makes things more costly again.
Another issue is speed of building. Boat factories are pretty fast these days.

[Dave_S]

We have had office sized and desktop 3D printers for about 20ish years at work. If I was going into manufacture boats now I would absolutely go this way.

You can do it all in one piece and strength would not be an issue, the one piece construction would include all cupboards and furniture, cleaver design would increase strength through the roof. All wiring conduits, plumbing, vents etc. included in the initial print run. You would include all mounting boss preparations for drilling. Fitout would be a breeze, massive time saving with the right design.

It's all up to the designer.

Modifications afterwards would be harder and print fails would be hard for restart but I'm sure you could overcome these.

[Pauls]

Hey Boatman,

I'm not aware of 3D printers extruding a fiber filled plastic but it seems reasonable. But the fibers are going to be random alignment and short length. A lot stronger than nothing but not like long fibers aligned with the stress they're going to carry.

So yeah, it can work, it's just not going to be a high strength to weight structure.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pauls

Hey Boatman,

I'm not aware of 3D printers extruding a fiber filled plastic but it seems reasonable. But the fibers are going to be random alignment and short length. A lot stronger than nothing but not like long fibers aligned with the stress they're going to carry.

So yeah, it can work, it's just not going to be a high strength to weight structure.

I was just wondering if there was a possibility machines could develop to the capability where like say a TIG welding set-up fibres (carbon maybe) could be extruded at the same time as a resin in a long stream, likely loads of reasons it cannot but maybe it could..
My knowledge is limited to operating basic extruders in a more limited fashion.. and as I said, a resin as opposed to a plastic.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boatman61

From what I can understand a 3D printer is basically a computerized extruder.. surely it could be modified to extrude a mixture of fibers and resin if it is capable of extruding panels for a building.

Any part that needs strength needs long fibers and they need to be in specific patterns.

The chopped matt approach would be OK for low stress parts but for the entire hull not so much.

I suppose you could "print" in metal but that's essentially a build up of weld material which is known for having poor performance characteristics.

But again, the big cost is in the fitting out, electrical, hardware, propulsion systems, etc... and those don't print very well.

[Tayana42]

I’ll be more interested when you can 3D print crew. Think anime super heroes (or heroines if you prefer). That would be better than a Milwaukee right angle drill for electric winches. [emoji6]

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Why would one need to use layers of Fibreglass..

Directional strength.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I definitely am thinking outside the box.

You need stiff panels to make anything good. Yes, you could build from HDPE or something, but then you need a million bulkheads and stringers. Then you have a heavy piece of junk.

You could squirt out the equivalent of Coosa board with chopper gun type fibers. That could work. But it’s no lightweight boat if you want it rated for oceans.

One of the things that makes my boat so stiff and lightweight is 1” (25mm) corecell with carefully planned fiber direction. Uni runs, uninterrupted, from bow to stern.

I can’t see making a good boat this way. And I’m a futurist, I love 3D printing of other things.

About the only good way to do this would be to squirt out the core from the printer, then put up the glass/carbon everywhere over the core by hand, then infuse it.

No offense, because I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and what you're doing. However, this discussion is very much in the same line of thinking that folks had when fiberglass was introduced and traditional boat builders using wood or steel were trying to wrap their heads around how fabric and epoxy could achieve the same goal.

[Dave_S]

Fibre and continuous fibre is around now, some you can buy rolls and run in standard machines.

Continuous carbon fibre is around now and the ability to run honeycomb type designs, not necessarily octagon, in alternating layers to target specific stress loads means good weight savings through minimising waste of materials supporting loads that aren't there.

Continuous carbon fibre laid by 3D printing has similar strength to 6061-T6 aluminium. Imagine the strength of one piece honeycomb aluminium laid like that. Massive strength to weight.

Then imagine a machine making boats 24/7, you could have multiple machines running with one guy watching them.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

.................you could have multiple machines running with one guy watching them.

UGGG!!! I hate the idea of automation bringing an end to a tradition of skilled labor, or the proposed potential loss of jobs.

On the other hand I have to harken back to the tall tales of Paul Bunyun and John Henry as they lament that the industrialization of lumberjacking with the introduction of the chainsaw, or tunnel building with the introduction of the drill and jackhammer would do the same to their jobs as well.

[Franziska]

This.

Exactly, as I've mentioned earlier on.

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Fibre and continuous fibre is around now, some you can buy rolls and run in standard machines.

Continuous carbon fibre is around now and the ability to run honeycomb type designs, not necessarily octagon, in alternating layers to target specific stress loads means good weight savings through minimising waste of materials supporting loads that aren't there.

Continuous carbon fibre laid by 3D printing has similar strength to 6061-T6 aluminium. Imagine the strength of one piece honeycomb aluminium laid like that. Massive strength to weight.

Then imagine a machine making boats 24/7, you could have multiple machines running with one guy watching them.

[Franziska]

Skilled labour on the development side is growing, and this will not replace artisan builders creating classic yachts.

This replaces relative low skilled laminating jobs primarily and makes fit out easier and more cost efficient.

Creating the necessary 3D geometry including load path calculations is pretty involved if it is done right.

Originally Posted by Shrew

UGGG!!! I hate the idea of automation bringing an end to a tradition of skilled labor, or the proposed potential loss of jobs.

On the other hand I have to harken back to the tall tales of Paul Bunyun and John Henry as they lament that the industrialization of lumberjacking with the introduction of the chainsaw, or tunnel building with the introduction of the drill and jackhammer would do the same to their jobs as well.

[Don C L]

I'm still enjoying the image of extruding a copy of my boat out of cow dung and straw...
talk about thinking out of the box!

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Shrew

UGGG!!! I hate the idea of automation bringing an end to a tradition of skilled labor, or the proposed potential loss of jobs.

On the other hand I have to harken back to the tall tales of Paul Bunyun and John Henry as they lament that the industrialization of lumberjacking with the introduction of the chainsaw, or tunnel building with the introduction of the drill and jackhammer would do the same to their jobs as well.

I'm 100% with you. I was trained by true craftsman who thought nothing of spending a day making and hand engraving a screw to match the existing. There just isn't the number of people around prepared to spend the money to pay someone to do that anymore and so the skills get lost. It is sad.

Unfortunately evolution in all areas is killing and creating new skills but so far it seems to be working. I do wonder what will happen in a few hundred years when full employment capacity is maybe only 75% of the available population. Sounds like war.

[barnakiel]

There sure will be more and more of use.


You may have seen how Hallberg makes next models molds.


Etc.