Radar needed? in Bahamas

[Astrid]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

No fog. No RADAR needed.

AIS is a priority.

I used my AIS to watch where the commercial traffic went then plotted their tracks as routes. If they didn't run aground I couldn't ☺️

Hahaha good one Mark. Is that what is known as blind leading the blind?

[Kenomac]

If you plan to do any night time passages, then yes to radar since many boats don't have AIS. If no night passages, then radar isn't a "must have."

[Peregrine1983]

I agree with Kenomac. AIS is fantastic, but it's not going to show you that badly lit fishing boat you're bearing down on at 3AM. Or that bouy that's not where it's supposed to be on the chart. I'm speaking from experience.

[puffcard]

No radar needed.

What you need.
Good VFH
Explorer Chartbook
GPS
Depth sounder
Compass
Binoculars

Nice to have
Chartplotter with charts
AIS
Wind instruments
SSB
Island phone for weather reports and storm radar
Tablet or phone with nav package
Last would be Radar

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

If you plan to do any night time passages, then yes to radar since many boats don't have AIS. If no night passages, then radar isn't a "must have."

People do overnight passages over the banks in the Bahamas?

[PiratesTreasure]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

While you don't need it, if you don't have an AIS receiver it's useful for crossing the gulf stream. AIS is definitely simpler to use when dodging the freighters and cruise ships on the crossing but radar will work. If you don't have an AIS transmitter make sure you get a radar reflector so the big guys can see you. Our plastic boats don't give off much of a radar return without one.

I don't really use radar in the daytime in the Bahamas but it is pretty useful at night. It is quite common for Bahamian fishing boats to be running at night on the banks with no lights and they tend to use the same routes between Islands as cruisers. It's nice to have a little warning when one is coming at you. Many people won't travel at night in the Bahamas but winter days are short and some passages take longer than available daylight.

The explorer charts or electronic charts based on the explorer charts will pretty much take care of your chart needs. The only gotcha is that so many people use the suggested routes. It's not unusual to have someone coming the opposite direction on autopilot. The problem being that the gps based track following is so accurate it tends to increase the danger of a collision.

Have fun.

Capt. Bill is correct, you NEED an AIS!
I work on a Tanker that transits from the GOM to the Straits of Florida, speeking for all my fellow Ship Navigators we can't see you! Even when your in a yacht as big as 60ft most of you don't, is almost impossible to see! Remember it's not to be seen as ships can't see a class B AIS you can see them and stay away, yes when you see our green light, we can't see you! Calling us on VHF 16 and asking us if we see is ok we still will NOT see you!

Pirates Treasure
Pirates Key, Florida

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

While you don't need it, if you don't have an AIS receiver it's useful for crossing the gulf stream.

Commercial vessels all carry AIS and are used to be called by name. Calling a ship by description and location has never been wholly effective. Today it is nearly useless. The main benefit of AIS is clearly associating a particular target (AIS overlaid on chart or radar) with the view out your window so the ship's watch will answer and you know you are talking to the right ship.

Transmitting AIS yourself is certainly of some benefit. I've been called by commercial ships on that basis. I've also called commercial ships who still hadn't noticed I was there; not all watches maintain good situational awareness.

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

... make sure you get a radar reflector so the big guys can see you.

Radar reflectors are a bigger deal than most realize. There isn't a lot of credible material assessing the options. Qinitiq, the privatized UK version of US DARPA, did a report for MAIB (the UK NTSB) that was quite good. Real science: http://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollection...ors_Report.pdf . Dr. Philip Gallman wrote a very good book on the subject as well: https://www.amazon.com/Radar-Reflect.../dp/1930580738

The short version is that if you want a reflector that provides a meaningful increase in radar cross-section the Tri-Lens product is head and shoulders your best option. You might as well not bother with anything else.

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I don't really use radar in the daytime in the Bahamas but it is pretty useful at night.

Imagery interpretation is a skill. Like other skills it must be practiced to be maintained. Using radar during day light when you have visual ground truth for comparison is excellent practice.

[Taichungman]

Originally Posted by mike184858

Good Morning. I am new member to CF but have been reading the threads for years. I am actually laying out a plan for a 5 month sabbatical from work to take my family sailing (wife and kids 2 & 5 yrs old). I am working on trying to get a feel of what are "necessary" upgrades to my 2011 Dufour 405. or what is a nice to have if our goal is to spend 4-5 months bouncing through the Bahamas.

There are so many useful threads, but i have struggled to get a feel for opinions/thoughts on radar in the Bahamas? For boats that have them do yall use them regularly? or are updated charts elec/paper enough to get buy with a confident/cautious approach to navigating?

I'm weighing all the upgrades I potentially need to do laid out against value/comfort/safety. Most of the other equipment is easy to find opinions but i am struggling to find a thread on this. Any help/direction would be appreciated.

FYI- Located in Kemah, Texas - looking to start the trip in November of 2017.

Thanks - Michael

__________________________________________________ ____

I sailed through the Caribbean last September (SF50) from Cape Town and radar came in very handy monitoring the many thunder storms rolling in from East to West. If nothing else it gave me peace of mind knowing which dark clouds coming up from behind had rain and usually wind with them. We didn't alter course but we did do some sail changes without having to hurry to do it. Our SOP at night through the Caribbean was to keep good eye on AIS and monitor Radar every thirty minutes or whenever you think it's necessary.
Do you absolutely need radar? NO, as we know people have sailed around the world without engines or navigational aids. But, If I were taking my family, I would have every safety feature I could afford on board. AIS and Radar would be a must for me.



I just noticed you are in Kemah. If you have sailed in the Gulf you know you need radar with all the rigs, unlit rigs and pipes sticking up out there. I lived on a cat in the 80's in the Gulf and in daytime it's no problem but night sailing is like Forest Gump said, " it's like eating a box of chocolates; you never no what you're gonna get." Get RADAR.

[boatpoker]

Radar is a waste of money ..... until you get caught in the dark in driving rain and are trying to enter a narrow rip rap channel. At that point your plotters, AIS and I-pads are worthless but your radar will get you in.
Ye pays yer money and takes yer chances.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Commercial vessels all carry AIS and are used to be called by name. Calling a ship by description and location has never been wholly effective. Today it is nearly useless. The main benefit of AIS is clearly associating a particular target (AIS overlaid on chart or radar) with the view out your window so the ship's watch will answer and you know you are talking to the right ship.

Transmitting AIS yourself is certainly of some benefit. I've been called by commercial ships on that basis. I've also called commercial ships who still hadn't noticed I was there; not all watches maintain good situational awareness.



Radar reflectors are a bigger deal than most realize. There isn't a lot of credible material assessing the options. Qinitiq, the privatized UK version of US DARPA, did a report for MAIB (the UK NTSB) that was quite good. Real science: http://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollection...ors_Report.pdf . Dr. Philip Gallman wrote a very good book on the subject as well: https://www.amazon.com/Radar-Reflect.../dp/1930580738

The short version is that if you want a reflector that provides a meaningful increase in radar cross-section the Tri-Lens product is head and shoulders your best option. You might as well not bother with anything else.



Imagery interpretation is a skill. Like other skills it must be practiced to be maintained. Using radar during day light when you have visual ground truth for comparison is excellent practice.

Thing I don't understand - radar reflectors are nearly useless and sailboats are invisible to Ship's radar, but radar proponents claim to be able to avoid crab pots? Am I the only one for whom these two views don't add up?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Am I the only one for whom these two views don't add up?

It's all about the spin need to justify whatever point you want.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Thing I don't understand - radar reflectors are nearly useless and sailboats are invisible to Ship's radar, but radar proponents claim to be able to avoid crab pots? Am I the only one for whom these two views don't add up?

In calm conditions, I can see plastic sailboats at 3nm, in all conditions at 2nm. Yes, in rough conditions it takes several sweeps to ascertain it's more than just wave reflection. Assuming ships radar is much more powerful and a better angle due to more height, they must be able to see plastic sailboats greater than 3nm, but is this enough time for them to make adjustments?

I haven't looked for crab pots on radar, but have seen birds and low flying airplanes. Crab pots are most likely visible to the eye before radar and in low vis, distinguishing between a crab pot and wave reflection on radar would be very hard to do, I would think.

[Taichungman]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Thing I don't understand - radar reflectors are nearly useless and sailboats are invisible to Ship's radar, but radar proponents claim to be able to avoid crab pots? Am I the only one for whom these two views don't add up?

__________________________________________________ _____

It's true that fiberglass and wood boats don't show up on Ship's radar very well or at all. But, with the right type of reflector mounted high as possible and as vertical as possible, ships can see your image. I had one mounted on a cat and ( vertical mounting more possible than on mono) was told by shrimper skipper he could see me on his radar when I couldn't even see his boat visually.

I don't know about seeing crab pots...might take someone with lots of experience with radar and crab pots. I have neither.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Thing I don't understand - radar reflectors are nearly useless and sailboats are invisible to Ship's radar, but radar proponents claim to be able to avoid crab pots? Am I the only one for whom these two views don't add up?

I have run casual tests underway with cruiser friends using several different reflector types, some are better than others but they do IMHO make a significant difference. They are also legally required by International Collision Regulations Rule 40 (for most of us).

FRP boats (power or sail) often show up very well on radar at some angles and very poorly on others. This is where a reflector helps.

Yes, crab pots and seagulls can be picked up but only in perfect conditions.

While I wouldn't leave home without it, I believe that manufacturers hide the complexity of radar with their colourful brochures and dumbed down automatic features. I prefer the older radars where FTC, STC, Tune and Gain were adjusted via knobs without having to scroll through dozens of menus.

My radar course many years ago was 11 weeks at the Georgian College Centre for Marine Training ( believe it's now a 16 week course with other stuff thrown in). To think one can pick up a Raymarine or Garmin manual and be proficient or even gain an understanding of radar benefits or limitations is unrealistic.

[Taichungman]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

People do overnight passages over the banks in the Bahamas?

__________________________________________________ _____

Sailed as crew nonstop from Tortola last Sept. to Stocking Island across from Georgetown. Sailed around North end of Long Island at midnight and anchored in front of St. Francis resort on Stocking Island at 04:25.
Couldn't have done it without great skipper, radar, proven way points and two lookouts on the bows. Lots of rock on that entry but it can be done at night.