Please (try to) avoid sailing/transiting through race courses

[psk125]

Further to the above, the NOR (Notice of Race) for the 2024 A-Class North American Championships indicates the racing area: https://www.regattanetwork.com/clubm...AClass2024.pdf
The most logical route for anyone trying to go from Pensacola out to the Gulf of Mexico or from there in to Pensacola would be right through the middle of the racing area. Perhaps holding the races it on the other side of I 98 would have been more out of the way.

[Knotical]

As a cruiser, I try to give a wide berth to the racers whenever I can, especially if the race has been announced on radio by the RC or CG.

As a racer, I consider crossing boats as additional obstacles that I have to look out for and avoid, it’s fun, don’t get too beat up by it, unless you are a pro and have sponsors to answer to.

[Kettlewell]

A couple of summers ago I was anchored off of Chappy Point in Edgartown, MA, and the local yacht club was racing J70s through the anchorage area amidst all the super yachts. It lead to lots of strange tactics with large wind shadows created, and of course immovable objects blocking various routes. I couldn't hear the racers since I was inshore from them, but it looked like they were having fun.

I've helped organize and run a few regattas and lots of dinghy races, and announcing stuff on the radio is basically hopeless. For example, unless someone is already underway when the race starts they are likely to miss any announcement. Plus, a lot of cruisers just aren't listening to the VHF all the time. Another problem is that cruisers aren't racers for the most part, so they have no idea what is going on. What is obvious to the racers in terms of start/finish, what the marks mean, where the boats will be going next, etc. is not obvious to the average cruiser, especially the powerboater passing through.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by DragonflyBob

I’ve been a long time small boat sailor/racer and relatively new cruiser. I’m posting this thread to ask my cruising friends here to try to be aware especially when you are in a coastal area near yacht clubs of boats racing on courses relatively close to harbor entrances.

I see both sides on this, and there's nothing wrong with asking for awareness.

On the other hand, nobody owns the navigable waters, and it is often difficult to figure out what other vessels that think themselves privileged in some way are going to do next. I usually have less trouble with racers than I do with recreational fishing, parasail operators, and (in rivers) rowing crews that are training (not racing).

I don't think it's reasonable to routinely expect cruisers to take a half hour detour to avoid an entire race area that they happen across. For exceptional races at the pinnacle of the sport, areas can be officially closed, and often are.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by DragonflyBob

This thread has digressed a bit in that a lot of the responses are related to experiences between cruisers and offshore racing boats operating in open waters. My concern is when there is a relatively smaller race course set in an area where there is plenty of sea room to navigate to one side or the other of the course so as to not affect typically the one design racing (all the boats racing being of the same design) that is underway.

This past regatta when I jibed out early on a downwind leg to avoid conflict with the large Beneteau that was sailing on port tack through the middle of the course, I actually lost a couple of places as I jibed away from the favored side of the race course. Like wise in another race during the same series, I was on starboard tack sailing upwind and had to duck a cruiser going across the course on port tack. It did not cost me anything but it was apparent the cruiser had no idea he was sailing across the course and it was obvious he was not going to give way even though he was on port tack. I did not yell at him but as I ducked within a boat length of his stern I told him he was on a race course with other boats that were much faster than the 4-5 knots he was making crossing the course.

Let's start with operating a vessel in extremely close proximity and with major speed differentials.

Basic COLREGS reminder:

Rule 6 (Safe speed)

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid a collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.
In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account:

(a) By all vessels:

(i) the state of visibility;

(ii) the traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any other vessels;

(iii) the manoeuvrability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions;

(iv) at night the presence of background light such as from shore lights or from backscatter of her own lights;

(v) the state of wind, sea and current, and the proximity of navigational hazards;

(vi) the draught in relation to the available depth of water.



Closing and crossing within a small boat length of my stern at a much faster speed when I am out cruising would elicit some stern yelling on my part. And on shore that's when cruising could end up becoming a bruising.

IMHO, racers do not own the water; please don't act like ones does, sod just make a course change in life by quitting with a privileged attitude and action.

Geez, this is exactly how a regatta becomes a regretta.

". . . through the middle of the course", perhaps your course maybe, but no one else's course; nor a course that is marked in any fashion on the waterway or on charts.

Q: Did you ever ask or ponder what course the cruising boat was taking?
A: Not likely!

You stated you lost a couple of places do to jibing, no you dropped places because YOU failed to take into account traffic that need to be navigated around and / or, other racers anticipated and accommodated their navigation to take account for and pursued an advantage induced by traffic.

Please own up to your responsibilities as being foremost a navigator of shared water ways with equal privileges; don't place blame or onus on others.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Let's start with operating a vessel in extremely close proximity and with major speed differentials.

Basic COLREGS reminder:

Rule 6 (Safe speed)

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid a collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.
In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account:

(a) By all vessels:

(i) the state of visibility;

(ii) the traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any other vessels;

(iii) the manoeuvrability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions;

(iv) at night the presence of background light such as from shore lights or from backscatter of her own lights;

(v) the state of wind, sea and current, and the proximity of navigational hazards;

(vi) the draught in relation to the available depth of water.



Closing and crossing within a small boat length of my stern at a much faster speed when I am out cruising would elicit some stern yelling on my part. And on shore that's when cruising could end up becoming a bruising.

IMHO, racers do not own the water; please don't act like ones does, sod just make a course change in life by quitting with a privileged attitude and action.

Geez, this is exactly how a regatta becomes a regretta.

". . . through the middle of the course", perhaps your course maybe, but no one else's course; nor a course that is marked in any fashion on the waterway or on charts.

Q: Did you ever ask or ponder what course the cruising boat was taking?
A: Not likely!

You stated you lost a couple of places do to jibing, no you dropped places because YOU failed to take into account traffic that need to be navigated around and / or, other racers anticipated and accommodated their navigation to take account for and pursued an advantage induced by traffic.

Please own up to your responsibilities as being foremost a navigator of shared water ways with equal privileges; don't place blame or onus on others.

Colregs 12 - Port tack gives way to starboard tack

Unless I'm missing something, Dragonfly is in the right.

[DragonflyBob]

With due respect, for further clarification.

There was over 2 miles of sea room on one side of the race course and over 9 miles of sea room on the other side of the race course. The course was not blocking any transit options into or out of Pensacola Bay during the event.

When I passed astern on starboard tack of the cruiser sailing on port tack noted in my post, I made sure we had already made eye contact and waved to each other for acknowledgement as I indicated to him I would pass astern. I stayed within a boatlength so I could verbally hail him to let him know a race was going on and to hold his course so other boats could anticipate his heading across the race course and adjust as necessary. The exchange was respectful and friendly.

Regarding the 50' Beneteau that sailed through the middle of the course on a port tack broad reach at probably 8-10 knots of boatspeed, I took action early on for safety. There was no excuse for the skipper of this boat to transit through the middle of the fleet when there was plenty of sea room on either side of the race course to avoid interference.

I was safety boat at an Optimist regatta several years ago and had to rescue a 12 year old Optimist sailor when a cruiser entered their race course on port tack (with over 30 Optimists sailing!) and proceeded to sail through the middle of their fleet. The skipper of the cruiser had no idea that he was a give way boat to the Optimists on starboard tack. The young lad thought since he was on starboard tack that the cruiser would keep clear. A collision resulted and thankfully no one was hurt but the Optimist was damaged as it was certainly not a fair fight against a 40' cruiser. FWIW, the cruiser stopped sailing and came in with the tow and was genuinely sorry for the incident in which he was totally wrong and negligent.

And for the record, the sailors in the United States A-Class Catamaran Class have been more than once complimented for their sportsmanlike attitude toward each other and to race management. Our top sailor in the class was honored as the Rolex Yachtsman of the Year last year.

Originally Posted by Montanan

Let's start with operating a vessel in extremely close proximity and with major speed differentials.

Basic COLREGS reminder:

Rule 6 (Safe speed)

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid a collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.
In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account:

(a) By all vessels:

(i) the state of visibility;

(ii) the traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any other vessels;

(iii) the manoeuvrability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions;

(iv) at night the presence of background light such as from shore lights or from backscatter of her own lights;

(v) the state of wind, sea and current, and the proximity of navigational hazards;

(vi) the draught in relation to the available depth of water.



Closing and crossing within a small boat length of my stern at a much faster speed when I am out cruising would elicit some stern yelling on my part. And on shore that's when cruising could end up becoming a bruising.

IMHO, racers do not own the water; please don't act like ones does, sod just make a course change in life by quitting with a privileged attitude and action.

Geez, this is exactly how a regatta becomes a regretta.

". . . through the middle of the course", perhaps your course maybe, but no one else's course; nor a course that is marked in any fashion on the waterway or on charts.

Q: Did you ever ask or ponder what course the cruising boat was taking?
A: Not likely!

You stated you lost a couple of places do to jibing, no you dropped places because YOU failed to take into account traffic that need to be navigated around and / or, other racers anticipated and accommodated their navigation to take account for and pursued an advantage induced by traffic.

Please own up to your responsibilities as being foremost a navigator of shared water ways with equal privileges; don't place blame or onus on others.

[Island Time O25]

My mooring is in Salem Harbor. Right outside on any given weekend there are a bunch of races going on. On some weekends of national fame. But it's not often possible to go out of one's way safely as there are islands, shoals, rocks, markers, stationary fishermen boats, just yahoos circling around, etc. So IMO it's up to the racing crowd to devise a least disruptive course not the casual boaters who may not be so swift as to accomodate the racers. Imagine marathons every weekend with no traffic or crowd control. Who should have ROW in that scenario?

[TeddyDiver]

The most common problem IMHO is the "invisibilty" of the race course for other boaters. By the time it comes obvious they are already in the race area. What comes to being "priviledged", how many racers really want to be the stand-on vessel? As such you are obliged to maintain your course and speed..

[cram]

Our local club racing course is typically laid through a narrowing of a bay which must be passed by all vessels. We also deal with crab traps on the course. We afford all vessels on the water the same courtesy and right of way. Most boaters don't know how their actions affect my race, it's my responsibility to operate my vessel accordingly.

[GILow]

We were anchored about two miles off shore a few weeks back. Heat wave, seemed the best place to be.

Some pack of racing clowns decided to race south down the gulf, most of them passed within 50 meters of us, despite their start line being basically at the shore line.

When racers start behaving in a civil fashion I’ll respond in kind, in the meantime I weigh around ten tons more than them and they can expect me to totally disregard their race course just as they ignore our anchorage.

[CaptTom]

Aren't we all asking for the same thing? A little courtesy?

I hate to see it break down into factions. Racers vs. cruisers. Power vs. sail vs. human-powered. Commercial vs. recreational. Transients vs. locals.

Live is so much easier if we try to respect others' use of the water. Pay attention to what's going on around you. Anticipate. Smile and wave. Using all five fingers.

[Kettlewell]

One problem I find is that the difference in relative speed between my slow monohull and some racers makes it very difficult to keep clear, even if I am the give-way vessel. I also encounter this problem routinely with board sailors screaming across my course at maybe ten times the speed I am proceeding. In fact, it's very hard to determine whether or not we are better off just proceeding on course or if we need to tack, thereby creating an even slower hazard on the course of approach for the board sailor. Or, how about kite boards? I've had a few close encounters where I become worried about the line up to their kite catching on my mast. In general, I try to give as much room as needed to any racer, and even most other vessels, and don't push my "rights" even if technically I could.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Aren't we all asking for the same thing? A little courtesy?

Exactly. Everyone, always, should behave courteously -- it's the Canadian way after all . Everyone should at least pretend to be friendly, until someone breaks with reciprocity, and waves with only one finger . Then the gloves are off .

The OP came here with a plea for more courtesy from non-racers, but also with a good reminder that these little racey boats are likely moving a lot faster than one might expect. It's a good reminder for us in slower, lumbering vessels when we're trying to transit an area with active racing boats.

There's no suggestion the OP was not being courteous in his cited encounters with cruisers, but I hope it is equally clear that courtesy runs in both directions. Racers, and especially race organizers, need to run their events to minimize the impact on other boaters. And they need to communicate as well as possible, so other boaters have the opportunity to avoid the area, if they can.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The OP came here with a plea for more courtesy from non-racers, but also with a good reminder that these little racey boats are likely moving a lot faster than one might expect. It's a good reminder for us in slower, lumbering vessels when we're trying to transit an area with active racing boats.

With all due respect Mike. The plea was to not to cruise through the race course. My contention is that nobody goes out of their way to cut through a course. If this is a problem, it is that the course is likely in path of a common route.

Some arguments are around "How it impacts my race". So the ask is I spend time going around you in order to not impact your race?? There is no regard for how the races impact others.

I find them most frequently right outside the entrance to the harbor of the sailing club they launched from.

At no point should there be an argument about colregs. They should simply be followed regardless of whether both parties are too lazy to work around each other.