Need alternative to Pirate flag

[Tellie]

I think that the pirate flag is still appropriate today. In fact, one should be flying high above West Marine.

[sloopdogg]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Note to Trolls:

If you feel the need to chime in to dismiss this as an issue, you are completely ignoring the point and request of my post, which is seeking an "alternative to a pirate flag" that makes a positive statement about cruising.

People who feel the need to spout their contrary opinions out of context either aren't paying attention, don't care, or have too much time on their hands and not enough worthy causes for their energy.

I care about the cause of trying to find a flag that makes a "statement" worthy of the cruising community, how about you- feel free to post on CF something you care about.

So why not say that and only that? Why bring other people into it?

I only fly an American flag myself as I have not found anything else that I want to represent me, my crew, or my vessel. But I do not judge what anyone else chooses to fly unless it truly is offensive. The skull and crossbones doesn't represent the modern day pirate any more than flying a pair of jockey shorts does...

Stay on point and maybe you wouldn't get so many lessons on where your presumptions fall short...

[jeepers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
I have a CD of 60 minutes of great cowboy yodeling. It's amazing how peaceful my anchorage is in just one hour.

Originally Posted by AKA-None

You sir are cruel simply cruel
;-)

The skirl of the pipes (bagpipes) is great for getting the Rap music turned off especially the morning after the night before.

[Cynara]

We designed our own house flag

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by sck5

Pirates are thieves with boats. I encountered a few in my years of cruising the eastern Caribe. Everyone cruising there has to be at least a little bit aware of where they anchor, locking things up, etc.

I notice that West coast people tend not to have any real life experience like this. Sure, there are thieves in CA and the PNW but there are also cops - Not like the situation in the Caribe where the cops, if they are around at all, are cousins of the thieves. To West Coast boaters the idea of actual pirates running around without any real restraints is about as real as medieval knights in shining armor.

Poverty has a big role in this too. Not many people in the PNW are desperate enough to steal things in order to get by. It is quite different in many parts of the Caribbean.

Do these modern day Caribbean pirates fly the Jolly Roger? Does the Jolly Roger have anything at all to do with them? I think we can all agree that nobody likes actual pirates or condones thievery, especially when the victims are fellow boaters, but the Jolly Roger hasn’t been used by thieves to announce their presence and intentions for almost 300 years.

[jeepers]

I wonder how many people (sailors) of principle would refuse a FREE breakfast. A breakfast of pancakes and real maple syrup (Canadian style), hot biscuits, butter and jam(USA style), crepes with sugar & lemon (Aussi style) coffee, tea and juices and a shot of 180 proof Newfie Screech to brush your teeth, in an anchorage on a vintage sailing ship flying a Black Flag. I wonder....

[RichardGSW]

I thought it was against maritime laws to fly a flag other than the country of home port, visiting country, signal flags and club burgee? There are also regulations as to where on the vessel those flags should be displayed.

I think most people now equate the flag to symbolize fun party boat thanks to Disney movies like Pirates of the Caribbean. Heck on many cruise ships they have a pirate night where everyone is encouraged to dress up as a pirate. It's considered more fun to be bad than good.

Personally I tend to stay away from boats flying the Jolly Roger as I think there is a higher probability of excessive drinking and noise at night.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by argonauta1

In 2005, I sent the following e-mail to several Yachting magazines including the Pacific Northwest located ones with which you will be familiar. As a then

just returned circumnavigator, we had done our share of piracy avoidance in places like Venezuela and the Gulf of Aden. Upon retuning with the boat to Canada, I had been disappointed to find that my Cruising Organization was using a Piracy theme for an annual gathering at Bedwell Harbor BC.



While considering my remarks somewhat over the top, our cruising association has not used a piracy theme since. Below is my 2005 e-mail to yachting media



Hello guys, sorry for seeming somewhat exercised about Piracy Themes but we as circumnavigators who have successfully run the gauntlet of 'Pirate Ally" in the Gulf of Aden and have sailed pirate infested waters off the north

coast of South America and in South East Asia feel we must comment.



Many boating magazines have carried alarming stories involving murder and

kidnappings endemic in several parts of the world including the North

Western Indian Ocean. Many of these same magazines carry stories and

advertisements using the Pirate Theme as a positive focal point.



I would like to pose an open question to all Sailing magazines and Sailing

organizations: why do we still see the Pirate Theme used in many gatherings

and events for boaters?? In light of the current piracy epidemic, we feel

piracy themes, flying the Jolly Roger as a joke and so on should be anathema

to the Boating Community. PIRATES AREN'T FUNNY!!!



Best Regards, Hugh & Heather Bacon



ARGONAUTA I. Canoe Cove Marina, Sidney BC Canada



https://currents.bluewatercruising.o...cumnavigation/



https://www.sailworldcruising.com/ne...nama-to-Canada

If even a single one of the criminal acts of terror you refer to were committed by pirates using the Jolly Roger as their standard, I think you’d have a legitimate argument that nobody should want to be associated with them by flying “their” flag. But that’s not the case. The Jolly Roger is not their flag and has long since become a symbol of harmless fun. Nobody is flying it to show solidarity with any actual criminals or to show support for any criminal acts. I suspect you already know that but in today’s world, woke fashion dictates that everybody has to find something to be offended by.

[docsnuz]

Originally Posted by Shrew

You might want to do some research into privateering outside of pop-culture.

Wow! I kind of thought that sounding off based on what pop culture portrays was for millennials. Here are some facts for people that care:
- pirates were thieves and robbers - boo pirates
- pirates were often privateers or regular navy sailors that were cast off by governments as soon as the politicians negotiated a peace with no pension, no job, no skills - aww, poor pirates
- some pirates were absolute devils using terror tactics to reduce the likelihood of the next target putting up any resistance - boo pirates.
- some pirates were not - yay possibly redeemable pirates
- pirates were the first modern democratic organization where the crew could "recall" the captain for poor treatment or lack of good leadership - yay visionary pirates
- pirates were the first modern group to establish a pension and compensation for injuries incurred "on the account" - yay, visionary again
- pirates were anarchists who believed that no one should hold dominion over another - boo anarchy and chaos
- pirates employed the same measures and tactics they observed when working for king and country - boo hypocritical governments
- pirates legacy became a symbol of an individual's right to a measure of control over their own destiny and of accountability of leadership to those being lead - yay inspiration (if viewed through rose coloured glasses)

So, no one can defend a thief or a terrorist or an anarchist. But one can respect some of the motivations, not including basic greed, that attracted so many to a career in crime with a very short life expectancy.

So I say, go ahead and fly your pirate flag as a celebration of the rise of democracy and idea that governments are accountable to the governed. Just don't act like a pirate.

[edmundsteele]

If you are anchored out with three grandkids aboard, all armed to the teeth with super-soakers, I think flying the Jolly Roger is providing passers by with fair warning.

[jeepers]

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/8824...RoCT2kQAvD_BwE

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by jeepers

I wonder how many people (sailors) of principle would refuse a FREE breakfast. A breakfast of pancakes and real maple syrup (Canadian style), hot biscuits, butter and jam(USA style), crepes with sugar & lemon (Aussi style) coffee, tea and juices and a shot of 180 proof Newfie Screech to brush your teeth, in an anchorage on a vintage sailing ship flying a Black Flag. I wonder....

Well I would expect the pancakes and biscuits to come out of a box, the syrup to be Aunt Jemima, the butter to be cold, and the crepes to never appear because no one let the batter sit long enough so they came out looking like pancakes. I further predict poor dinghy etiquette, lots of lights and loud music well into the night, a generator running all night, and a dragging anchor.

To me, a pirate flag connotes lack of knowledge, insensitivity, and general boorishness. Remember the Quest.

We'll eat better on my boat, thank you.

sail fast and eat well, dave

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Note to Trolls:

If you feel the need to chime in to dismiss this as an issue, you are completely ignoring the point and request of my post, which is seeking an "alternative to a pirate flag" that makes a positive statement about cruising.
(snip)
I care about the cause of trying to find a flag that makes a "statement" worthy of the cruising community, how about you- feel free to post on CF something you care about.

Um..., you opened the can of worms with these comments..........

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Pirates were outlaws, thieves, robbers, killers and slave traders. These same people (most of them anyway) would not dream of flying a Nazi flag on their boat , so why is it so cool and popular to fly a pirate flag that represents really BAD people?

(snip)

We’re the GOOD guys, right?

If you didn't want commentary, you should have just asked which flag should I fly that represents the cruising community.........

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Well I would expect the pancakes and biscuits to come out of a box, the syrup to be Aunt Jemima, the butter to be cold, and the crepes to never appear because no one let the batter sit long enough so they came out looking like pancakes. I further predict poor dinghy etiquette, lots of lights and loud music well into the night, a generator running all night, and a dragging anchor.

To me, a pirate flag connotes lack of knowledge, insensitivity, and general boorishness. Remember the Quest.

We'll eat better on my boat, thank you.

sail fast and eat well, dave

I thought Aunt Jemima had been blackballed as being racist.!!!

[Capt Doug]

I'm personally thinking about getting out the don't tread on me flag I think there's a time and a place for that flag